no errornet hearsay I am Having BTF with glocks and those who say hammer are obsolete are some SMEs not some kid in thier moms basement
Delete
Go ahead and make a switch…try something new. You can always go back if you like…that’s the good thing about utility guns, they’re not that costly.
As for me and my family we’re Sig & Smith. I’m really thinking about giving one of the 320’s a try when I come across one, just to see what sig thinks a striker trigger should feel like.
I like shooting my Glock 20 better than my PPQ, its a “smoother” shooter compared to the snappy 40. The G20 is a big gun though. They did a great job with the Gen 4
I love my PPQ, and shoot it way better than my G19.
If you like Glock and really don’t want to switch platforms, why not try (early/used) Gen3’s as recommended multiple times by many respected members on the forum?
Caveat: I grew up shooting 1911s and only have one Gen3 G19, which I am not very proficient with…
Scooter, I have 3 gen 3s still occasional btf tried the Apex extractors did nothing to improve it. That’s not to say their junk, its the luck of the draw ( its a glock problem not an Apex problem) And before you tell me get an early gen 3 or gen 2, It’s easier to find a Faberge egg, these days, I actually found and bought an early gen 3 late 90s and my luck the slide cracked.
Not saying that you aren’t.
I am saying go off your own experience, not what people you don’t know and have never met say on the internet about YOUR guns. There are people like me who have Glocks that don’t have BTF issues. There are people who own S&W M&Ps who don’t have accuracy problems. There are people who own S&W Shields that don’t have the problems that Ed and Skintop have. There are people who own perfectly reliable and durable Cohen era Sigs (my brother has one). I know of one person who had a HK P30 that always threw brass at his forehead even after tweaking it.
I have been shooting Glocks since 1997 and I even have a couple of G19s from that problem period. While I occasionally get a piece of brass thrown at my head, and always have (it is a “feature”:rolleyes: of the design), I have shot enough with them that I am confident in them despite issues I read on the errornet. If I were not, I would go with whatever I shot well and had confidence in. Even if it was a Hi-point or a Taurus.
You are obviously having a crisis in confidence in your firearm of choice. It sounds like it is a warranted crisis. You should seek out a different firearm that you will perform better with and have more confidence in. All I am saying is don’t base that confidence or lack there of on what you read from others on the internet. Go out and try them for yourself. If you base your choice on what you read on the internet, you will only buy guns that have so few examples available in the hands of shooters that no problems have surfaced and been reported yet;).
There are also SMEs who stay that hammer guns are superior to striker fired guns, you just need to pick what works best for you and your carry method, not what a SME that may or may not carry/use a gun the way you do recommends.
PM sent.
So, as a guy who has been down this trail several times, let me share some thoughts:
-
Anyone who says that the Glock extraction/BTF problem is a myth is simply a head-in-the-sand fanboi. I know, I had FIVE bad G19s in a row between 2010-2012, three of those factory replacements of replacements. It happens. Unfortunately, in my experience, if you get one that’s really bad out of the box, NOTHING will fix it. I’m on G19 #6 now, and it works, but I had to go the Apex extractor route to make it reliable.
-
When I got fed up with Glock’s BS (and I wasn’t even paying for shipping, as an LEO end-user), I switched to the P30. I gave it a REALLY hard go, worked that LEM trigger for all its worth for well over a year of hard training. My thoughts: First - the P30 is SIGNIFICANTLY more mechanically accurate than any G19 I’ve ever owned. If you really don’t think so, go work the 25 yard line, shooting at 3x5" cards, with both pistols - and post hit percentages. Second - bore axis is a NON-issue for me and many other shooters. For the love of all that’s holy, it’s a 9mm! It doesn’t have a lot of muzzle flip to start with. Any reasonably proper grip (two-handed, WHO, or SHO) will NOT cause your “splits” to be appreciably faster, if you ties those splits to ACCURACY. Yes, I can get sub-.15 splits with my G19 if I’m shooting at an IDPA cardboard at 5 yards and just want to hit the silhouette. But, if I want to keep everything in the A zone, or, better yet, the head box, at 7-25 yards, split times are a myth. Third - trigger. HKs DA/SA triggers SUCK except their match version. Period. I “grew up” shooting Berettas and Sigs (old Sigs that I wish I’d never sold) so I’m not “against” the TDA trigger. But, for whatever reason, HK simply can’t figure out how to build one where the DA isn’t abusively heavy, and the SA isn’t creepy/mushy with a longish reset. Now enter the LEM. There are a lot of “switched on” guys who think it’s the ultimate “street” trigger, and I’m not sure I disagree. But, especially in the P30, it suffers from a fairly hard “wall” at the end of a basically no-resistance take up, and the reset is long. Not Sig DAK long, but LONG - and it’ll give you fits if you’re used to a Glock’s reset. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not a BAD trigger, it’s just different, and takes a LOT of training to get used to. Most people who try the switch just rip through the “takeup” slack, then “stage” at the wall and SNATCH the trigger when the sights line up; then moan about the gun shooting left and low. To really master the trigger, you have to run it all the way through in smooth, continually increasing pressure, which, honestly is a skill that takes a lot of work to master. Lastly, the P30 is NOT very size efficient; the grip is long and wide, more in line with the G17 or M&P FS grip, making it harder to conceal than the G19, but with the same capacity. For the life of me, I simply cannot understand why anyone would ever mate a short slide to a long grip - nonsensical from a carry perspective. Because of this, I have pretty well dumped the P30 as a carry gun, and carry a P2000 instead - which is slightly smaller/lighter than the G19, though it gives up capacity.
The PPQ has all the P30’s strengths and weaknesses, EXCEPT being hindered with a difficult trigger. Couple its size inefficiency with difficulty in gaining support (if needed) and with Walther’s apparently Sig-like fascination with changing models every year, and I’m really not interested.
So, where am I today? Torn, between the G19 and P2000 with TGS LEM trigger. What’s on my hip right now? G19. What’s on my hip most of the time? G19. Why? Because when all is said and done, it’s accurate ENOUGH to get the job done inside 15 yards, and workable at 25, though the particular G19 on my hip is the LEAST accurate G19 I’ve ever owned. I’ve even gone as far as to try a KKM precision barrel in it, which led to a measurable improvement, but then I started having reliability issues. And, frankly, after-market support for the P2000 is limited, options are thin and expensive; contrasted to the G19, where I can go into any sight/holster/mag pouch vendor and buy whatever I think I want or need off the shelf, for all intents and purposes.
I think, based on Glock’s continuing problems (I understand that PA State Police adopted the Gen4 G21, but are probably going to drop it due to reliability issues) that 10 years from now, they’ll be a strong competitor in the market, but nowhere near the dominant force they are today. Do I think the P30 (or the SFP developed off of it) will be king? Heck no, the P30 will continue to be a connoisseur’s gun for people looking to take things up a notch in performance and price. Given Walthers continuing logistics issues, I don’t see the PPQ taking real hold either. My crystal ball tells me that, 10 years from now, the LE force will be split between Glock & M&P, with Sig & FN filling in the gaps. HK will continue to feed high-end products to small, discerning end-users, and Walther will still be a cool gun that some guys love.
Which brings up another point. Firearms are like fashion accessories in some circles, especially in competition-heavy areas. All it takes is for one “name” to start touting the new “superblaster 30000,” and suddenly everyone on the interweb wants a superblaster 30000. Don’t let other people’s posts drive you into a very expensive decision; try things out for yourself.
Sorry for the extensive rant, but I hate to see other folks suffer the way I have.
^ Very well stated post, thank you.
I can only offer my personal experience. I don’t discredit anybody else’s experiences
I have been shooting Glocks of all calibers for over 20 years.
In 2007 i switched to 9mm Gen3 Glocks. I don’t own any other platform or any other caliber. Never a BTF
I’ve had basic and advanced training and continue to train. I know a lot of better shooters than me
For the last couple of years I’ve watched a security detail begin to reluctantly transition from HK USPs compacts to Glocks. Never a BTF. Performance has improved significantly in training. I attribute this to the Glock trigger.
I just purchased a Gen4 G19 with a birthdate of March 2014.
This is the best Glock I own (so far). Very accurate. Great trigger. Soft shooter. Strong and positive ejection. No BTFs. Now I want another one…
From my limited experience and statistically insignificant sample I conclude (with caution and hesitation) that Glock has straightened out the problems
Bill
The PPQ is about 3/16 inch longer in the grip, otherwise same size and exactly the same weight as a Glock 19.
True that. It had been about five years since I’d even seen a Gen 2 Glock 9mm at a gun show. A few weeks ago I finally saw one. I stopped to talk to a friend I ran into, and that Glock was gone when I looked again!
I’ve gotten rid of all my Glocks. My current “carry” piece is a no-lock Smith 642. Last time I saw a 642 in a gun shop it had the internal lock, so I guess the no-lock version really was a “limited” edition. Sad.
I’m at a juncture where I want a defensive handgun that 1) I don’t have to “fix” right out of the box, 2) that is durable enough that I won’t be changing parts in a few thousand rounds, 3) that is affordable enough that I’m not tempted to build a shrine around it rather than putting live ammo through it, 4) that is reliable with a variety of ammo types, and 5) that has readily available and affordable accessories.
Is there such a pistol?
I think you can pick any 2 of those but not all of them at once.
Yes, and there’s a thread talking about it right now. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?149986-CZ-P-07
Call me when people have had a chance to run these hard.
I believe Mike Pannone has used his quite a bit and has very positive things to say. Anyways, the point of that thread is to gather opinions and I think you’d be hard pressed to find any significant number of people who have had problems. The early P07s had a “problem” where the polymer frame had a gap between itself and the steel sub-frame inserts but other than looking bad when the slide was off I don’t believe there were ever any malfunctions attributed to it. In any case, CZ replaced the guns that people returned for that issue.
I’m not you but I would continue to keep at least a couple Glocks around and shoot them on a regular, if not frequent, basis. These guns are everywhere so maintaining proficiency with them seems advisable.
Anyway it’s cool you’re finding guns you like better. Enjoy!
Already happening. Read Pannones comments in that thread.
C4
Glock has NOT straightened out any problems. My gen 4 g19 manufactures date of 1/5/2014 is the reason for this thread
I agree 100 % which is why I still shoot glocks