need help.i want a single point sling on my m4 who has the best , troy or blue force gear.
This is off of Larry Vicker’s website, and if you look you will find many people echo his sentiments:
Carbine Slings
With the introduction of my quick adjust two point sling design by Blue Force Gear I felt it was time to share my thoughts on carbine slings. For those who have had my carbine classes this will be old news but those who haven’t may enjoy reading this.
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Single Point Slings - As many of you know I am not a fan of this design. In my opinion it has far too many negatives for very few positives. The one big plus of the single point design is it is very easy to switch from shoulder to shoulder for weak side barricade shooting. It is a big advantage in that situation. However I honestly cannot think of another attribute it has; everything else in my opinion is negative. It tends to make the rifle dangle and hang off of you like a dead cocker spaniel. When you are shooting on the move after a transition it tends to interfere with your movement as the carbine wants to hang in front of your body. It also likes to hang up on kit as it is tight around your upper torso. When you take a knee it is guaranteed you will muzzle strike the ground unless you control it. Also if you are trying to climb anything it wants to hang in front of your body and prevent you from climbing efficiently. Single point slings are great if you are static at the 7 yd line and play bullet hose but other than that, in my humble opinion, they suck. As far as I am concerned all the negatives greatly outweigh the sole positive feature.
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Three Point Slings - I very rarely see these in classes anymore as I think everyone has gotten the word on them. With an AR style carbine they are about the worst possible choice. They offer none of the advantages of an adjustable two point with almost every negative in the book. They tend to hang up on kit big time. For a right hander they can interfere with controls and for a left hander they interfere with ejection. If you are standing around with no body armor on they may be cool (I don’t think so) but with any gear on shooters quickly figure out they are lame beyond belief. Like I said fortunately most people have gotten the word on three point slings so they are scarce in the circles I run in.
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Two Point Slings - Non adjustable two point slings like a standard USGI M16 sling offer real advantages in the ability to transition easily and keep the sling from hanging up on kit but suffer from the fact they are rarely the ideal length for any given task. They are generally too long or too short depending on a shooters position. Enter the quick adjust two point sling; in my opinion the best all around choice for a carbine sling and the overwhelming favorite in the Spec Ops circles I run in. It offers the best features, all things considered, with one negative vs. a single point design. Most of the time you will have to unsling one shoulder to do weak side barricade shooting. This of course depends on how you wear it and the kit you have on at the time. I used a two point quick adjust sling made by Boonie Packer called the BP-5 model for nearly two decades with excellent results.
In later years I realized the BP-5 was in serious need of updating, so I set about refining the design, all the while searching for a vendor to make my idea of the best two point quick adjust sling available. Luckily for me, I had Ashley Burnsed of Blue Force Gear in a recent carbine/pistol class. I was impressed with not only his open-minded attitude, but the superb quality of his products. We put our heads together, and after a short time, the Vickers Tactical Combat Applications Sling was the result. In my obviously biased opinion, it is the best adjustable two point design to date. Ashley, who I now call ‘Der Slingmeister’, did a great job turning my ideas into hardware and now we are ready for primetime. Initial feedback from some very experienced end users has been overwhelmingly positive. Needless to say, we are both very excited about this project.
A version with a wider padded strap for heavier rifles is coming next. Then we are going to put our heads together to design a purpose built special cutaway version. Stand by for updates.
In closing, I recommend you try a quick adjust two point sling; if not mine then another vendor’s design. I think eventually you will agree with me in it is the best choice given all the factors involved.
fyrelt:
We have been down this road before, the search button is your friend.
If you must have a single point, the best one is likely The Wilderness. That being said, the only thing that sucks more than a single point sling on an M4 is a three point sling.
Get a two point sling, it is the best compromise of all worlds. VT makes a nice one. mho.
I think the BFG Single point is better than the Wilderness - I have about 4 of each – and all now collect dust while I hoarde more of the VCAS slings – Grant has a special version from BFG with QD swivles sewn into both sides - cuts down on bulk - and gives more adjustment room.
Watching LAV run the sling - showed me I had missed a bit, and while I liked it before – I love it now
I wish BF would put a video tutorial on their website.
Roger that! I’d even settle for a few pictures and an explanation. It’s like alot of things you think you are doing it right, but the designer of the thing could teach you how to get the MOST out of it.
Jack
It’s not that difficult. You tighten up the quick adjust tab to the point it is comfortable and works for you. Then if you need to do something with the weapon like switch shoulders or transition the rifle to your support side so you can use the white light on the rifle/carbine, you run out the quick adjust tab to the point where it lets you do what you need to do.
It’s awesome.
KevinB is right about the version you want…the G&R tactical version with the sewn in QD sling swivels is the heat.
This qoute from Kevin B
“Watching LAV run the sling - showed me I had missed a bit, and while I liked it before – I love it now”
Is what prompted the video tutorial response from me.
Minor hijack, apologies, but could you expound upon this?
I am currently running VTAC and am curious if I am missing something that may be unique to the LAV sling.
While it’s a good sling, better than 1 pt. and 3 pts., the VTAC’s “tail” is the issue for a lot of people. The tail could get caught in gears, vehicle, etc. I tried the VTAC sling a friend installed on his rifle and found that it was very difficult to transition to weak side shooting because the adjustment wasn’t enough.
Is this somewhere on the 'net?
I will try to get some pics up of the sling and how to run it (from how I use it) - but realistically it won’t likely happen for a few days
The VTAC has been removed from my guns – the tail gets caught in too much stuff.
more to follow
Regarding the Vickers 2 point, I mount mine to the receiver end plate and on the handguard rail next to the barrel nut.
I found that rather then using the quick adjust slider it was much faster and easier to use the sling if I wear it so it only goes around my neck. With a properly adjusted sling, wearing it around my neck allows me to switch sides without having mess with the slider.
If I will be going hands free for an extended time I can slide my support arm through the sling loop and wear it normally.
Basically, I found that with a properly adjusted 2 point sling the quick adjust slider is really not necessary.
I look forward to seeing Kevin’s pics. Maybe I’m missing something about how to best run a gun with the Vickers sling.
Read 2 posts up of mine:p
I personally put very little emphasis on the ability to transition the weapon to the weak side in the selection of slings. Some people have the money and time to train their weak side to the equivalent of their strong side. I really don’t, so I spend my time training my strong side to be even stronger or gain new proficiencies.
I think that wearing the sling around the neck is a really bad idea. My need to transition to the weak side is far less than my need to keep my airway open, circulatory system free, and my spine unbroken. I also push the weapon to the weak side during a transition to pistol. When moving rapidly I would prefer that it stay there instead of negatively interfacing with my balls. But that’s just me.
I cut the tail of my VTAC at the largetst extension I would need and knotted it. The only time I really cinch it down is for transport, though I have used it as a traditional support sling for a little test.
The only “tactical two point” I have actually used is the VTAC. I have done the “550 cord and parade sling” sling, and have handled the BFG sling. I didn’t dislike the BFG sling, I just didn’t need it at the time. However, if there is something unique to the BFG that LAV intentionally put there I am really interested. Is KevinB the only one that has been exposed to this knowledge?
Interesting thoughts on wearing the sling around the neck. Have there been a lot reports of injuries and of people getting choked out or their spine broken due to running the sling this way.
No, I’m not trying to be a smart ass;), I really do want to know the chances of getting injured from wearing a sling around the neck.
I basically wear my Vickers sling like these guys.
So far I have not experienced any issues due to running the sling in this fashion. Regardless, I’m open to using a better method if the one I’m using has really proven to be a bad thing.
I have had a guy I trained with try to choke me with the sling and all I did was duck my head through the sling and give him hard shove away and then transitioned to my pistol while he was standing there holding my carbine by the sling. I’m not any sort of CQB expert but it’s not that hard to avoid those type of attacks with a few simple techniques. In fact I think it would have been harder for me to react to the choke if I was wearing the sling in normal fashion.
In all honesty if I got into a weapon retention scuffle with a long gun I would probably be working to keep the muzzle pointed in safe direction first and then go for my knife and do a sewing machine imitation as soon I had the chance.
If I have to transition with the sling on I just slide my support side arm through the loop so my carbine will not be in the way and continue on with my normal drawstroke.
Nope.
LAV has explained the rationale behind his sling to lots of folks, mainly because somebody in practically every long gun class asks him about it.
The standard buckles are meant to be used to adjust the sling to where you want it 99% of the time with the quick adjust section being left fully tightened.
Then if you need to switch shoulders or switch the weapon into the support side to continue to use the white light or do something similar you can easily run the quick adjust tab out to allow you to perform that task.
Yojimbo-
I am not implying that you are an idiot for your choice in how you use a sling, or that you are going to die because of it, I assume that it works for you in the capacity that you employ it. I have not heard of anyone being injured/killed due to the wear of their sling, though it may be because very few people use it that way. I do use it that way to transition to the weak side, my old sling did not have enough adjust to permit the transition, so I would just sweep my left arm around the sling.
I just view it as a potential issue, so I don’t do it.
I couldn’t see your picture, so I am not sure exactly what you are referencing. However, usually with the sling around the neck the weapon lies straight up and down on the centerline of the body. This is not terribly good when moving and shooting the secondary at anything but a slow walk. This is why I force the carbine fully to the left side during the pistol draw.
Still, the way I use my sling is the way I use my sling. A way, not THE way. I wasn’t so much bashing your method as more or less explaining why I don’t do it that way.
“The sewing machine impression”- classic!
John_Wayne777-
I thought that KevinB was making reference to something more. If that is all, thanks for the info. I assumed that was the intended mounting procedure, and it is indeed good to go.
I need to pick up one of these slings and the one from Gear Sector. They both seem like quality 2-points, and I can always use 'em anyway.
LAV just showed some ways to make the transition smooth in gear – which had been an issue before for me while jocked up in my fighting and dying kit.
I got choked nearly out in a 3pt rig about 15 years ago and learned a long time ago the value of easy off - and not to give an opponent that option.
Due to the way the VTAC adjusts I find it hard to use in gear - and when I do the fricken tail gets stuck someplace I dont want it.
Thus for me its not an option – however mission drives the gear and it may work for some.
Interested and willing to wait the day or two if you don’t mind sharing.
I am always open to potential improvements.