Single point sling options?

AR/M4 AR Technical Discussion
1

I’m looking to put a single point sling on both my AR and my 870P.

I don’t have really any experience with the different slings available, and was hoping to get some feedback from those of you who’ve used them.

I understand that the single point has a few shortcomings, but for my usage, I still think it may be the best option.

What I wanted to get some clarification on were the different attachment methods and their pro’s and con’s.

I’ve seen the direct webbing type permanitly attached to the receiver end plate…
http://www.spectergear.com/hsts.htm

the webbing plate that’s detachable from the sling…
http://www.spectergear.com/mout_sling.htm

QD button types that attach to the side and bottom of the plate…
http://www.adcofirearms.com/itemdetails_.cfm?inventorynumber=1678
http://www.adcofirearms.com/itemdetails_.cfm?inventorynumber=2018

And HK style clip plates…
http://www.adcofirearms.com/itemdetails_.cfm?inventorynumber=1950

Then slings that have a loop which stays in 1 piece,
http://www.spectergear.com/mout_sling.htm

and a version that you can unbuckle and run out flat and detaches from the rifle.
http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_24&products_id=2943

With all these options out there…are there benefits to using the direct webbing interface with the receiver plate? Do the slings which you can un-buckle and lay flat end up releasing prematurely on folks? Do the extra buckles tend to hang up on people’s gear? Are the push button QD attachments really the way to go?

A friend of mine speaks highly of the “tactical link” 360 CQB sling…just dunno if I want to lay down that much $ for something…

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback!

2

Like most Troy stuff, it’s built like a tank. This is the Internet, so take it for what it’s worth, but I’m not the only soul who thinks this would be your best option in a single-point: http://www.troyind.com/slings.html

3

I like the Daniel Defense QD mount myself.

4

I am not too big on QD sling-swivels on a gun that is expected to take abuse. I am also not a big fan of single point slings on anything bigger than a 12" barrel.

Your post seems to be asking about a few different variables, so I will just lay-out my personal preference as a total package:

Mount: Daniel Defense CAR Burnsed Loop RH
Sling: Gear Sector ASP - they also have a mount under their name that may also be good, but I have not used it.

These are what seems to me to be the best single unit. There are other answers, some of which I also like, but this combo is hard to beat (to me).

ETA- I prefer a decent 2-point over any single point for the 14.5(+) class of ARs.

5

Thanks for the tip - I have been pondering this question myself and perhaps you could offer me a bit of advice. My only experience with single point sling was a very brief and ridiculous, (in hindsight) addition of an SP to my SOCOM-16 early on. Talk about stupid. I have been considering a Troy SP with a Troy mount for my M4 build, but after reading your post, am wondering why you feel the cut off for a SP is 12"? Thanks again…

6

I have used the Troy and i didn’t like the shoulder pad and thick webbing. I bought my friend a Troy for Christmas and he loves it, my fiancee also liked the Troy so I gave it to her.

As for single point slings, I prefer the Gear Sector ASP with the SPRE mounting plate. They are comfortable and do their job - weapon retention and quick transition. Connecting/Removing the ASP from the rifle seems easier to me via the QD buckle and little stub, as opposed to the HK hook style connector which the Troy uses.

For most of my rifles, like Failure2Stop, i prefer a modern 2 point sling (ie: Larue Tactical/Viking, Blue Force Vickers, Gear Sector 2P) or even some 3 point slings (Specter Gear) over a single point sling. 2P/3P slings offer a more stable platform for shooting from the standing and kneeling positions and usually keep the rifle in a more secure position than the 1P.

Slings like holsters are very much personal preference. About a year and a half ago, I bought into the single point sling hype since it seemed to be the next big thing. Only to find out that for me, single point slings offer very little benefit, and I ended up coming full circle right back to the 2P/3P slings. You definitely want to try before you buy.

Hope this helps.

7

Thanks - I’m one of those people who does not do well with too many choices, but in this case, I think the sling is important and often overlooked. Troy is now offering a two-point sling as well, (coming soon) and for the money, I may just get both and learn through trial and error - there will likely be a willing recipient for the unit that does not make the cut. It also leads to more questions about a good mounting option for a dual point on my Sully…I apologize for the scattered questions, (especially in a thread I didn’t start), but time grows closer for the build and I want it as right as possible the first time…Thanks again.

http://www.troyind.com/slings.html

8

It’s an issue with barrel length and the function of the sling in conjunction with actions required in a shooting situation.

Times a SP sucks-
When you want to alter the position of the gun when hands-free. SPs do not control the front of the gun, so the muzzle will always point in the same direction when not physically controlled- down. This is not always bad, but sometimes you might want to pull the weapon in tighter to your body, such as when climbing or carrying something.

When transitioning to a secondary weapon without guiding the carbine to a side. This results in the front sight post slamming into your balls (if you are so equipped), ususally causing you to drop shots with the pistol and offend everyone within hearing distance with verbal experssions of pain and anger.

Times when SPs suck if the barrel is longer than about 12"-
Taking a knee while transitioning to sidearm- this usually results in the barrel making contact with the ground, pushing the buttstock into your chin or face at the same speed you are dropping. Even if you evade your buttstock, you usually wind up with a piece of nature stuck in your FH.

When needing sling support for a long or precise shot. SPs have no ability to enhance marksmanship, they are simply not built for it. Though this applies to every barrel length, 14.5 (+) are perfectly caipable of dropping bipedal threats beyond 300 meters, while 12 (-) are not likely to be employed in this manner.

When moving with the primary hands-free. The barrel ususally bounces on the thighs unless distinctly pushed to a side and/or retained with a hand. This is beacuse the sling will always pull the weapon to your front.

Tiimes a SP is good:

When you need to switch between shoulders frequently. (A properly adjusted 2-point does this as well)

9

The visuals coupled with the information speak volumes F2S… :slight_smile:

I had some difficulty with the one point - especially on the run and going to the dirt. The SOCOM-16 is not a light gun and I thought in the back of my mind that the reduced weight of the AR would make the convenience of an SP worth a revisit - looks like I could be mistaken.

10

I had searched for some threads on this topic, and came up with some older responses, some of which had some pictures removed. In particular there was some discussion on a technique “rotating inboard” used to control the weapon while on a single point sling.

I couldn’t find a good description of this, nor could I find any pictures that displayed this. It sounded like you’d flip the gun so the mag rests on the opposite side of your body as your dominate shooting side…so the sling would have a 1/2" twist in it…is this correct? If so, I guess the QD mounts prevent you from doing this?

Thanks again!

11

Sorry to be hounding this thread-

CB-

There are basically two techniques I have used for transitioning to a secondary when a sling is worn and attached-

1- Fold down. When the primary stops going “bang” for whatever reason- release the pistol firing hand (the disctinction is for a reason, some people shoot rifle righty and pistol lefty, or vice-versa) to begin it’s travel toward the pistol. As soon as the hand leaves the rifle, the hand still on the gun (usually weak hand) turns the carbine so the magazine is off to the support (grasping hand) side, parallel to the ground. Both hands move simultaneously downward, the hand on the primary presses the long gun firmly against the abdomen; the other hand is moving to the pistol grip and releasing the retention device. Both hands should finish their movement at about the same time.

2- Pull Down. The hands are doing the same jobs, but instead of the support hand folding the primary down to the front, it simply pulls the gun forcefully down to the support side. This keeps the barrel from bouncing on your legs during movement, and both hands move toward the same area of their respective leg, possibly improving draw speed.

Method 1 works with 1, 2 and 3 point slings, but 3-pointers that are properly adjusted for all other situations tend to bunch up, bringing the stock close to the neck/chin. With a 1 point sling it is only marginally better than just letting the gun drop, but it does generally prevent the FSB from negatively interfacing with your testicles at high speed.

Method 2 works superbly with 2 point slings, and to a lesser degree with 1-points, as the 1-points will still creep/swing back to your center-line. It works ok with 3-points, though they don’t deserve it.

There is another transition method that doesn’t even get a number. Drop the gun and transition. It doesn’t work. Not at real speed. If you doubt it, I recommend you try it with a fully filled magazine and fully jocked-up. Report back after icing your spuds.

If you are not wearing the sling, there are other methods, as there are if you are not using a sling at all, but that is neither here nor there.

ETA- I have not had a QD interfere with my ability to control the gun during a transition, I am just a little suspicious of them in certain environments, and would be very upset if they gave way without my intention to do so, or did not release when I needed it to.

12

F2S…I welcome the hounding…I’m all ears.

I can’t say I’m up for taking a FSB to the nether region…I’ll skip the experiential learning process on that technique.

What I didn’t understand was if the webbing being slightly twisted over the buttstock aided in the control of the weapon while slung. I didn’t know if using a swiveling attachment inhibited this form of control.

Two of my closest friends who’ve done a good bit of door (and ass) kicking both used single point sling with nothing but praise…1 a team leader for a local SWAT team, who runs the Tactical Link on all of their entry guns and speaks very highly of them…and another who spent a tour in Falujia in the Marines, and used an improve sling point on a 20" A4.

I just think that a single point is a quick simple way to grab a rifle and fight with it. It’ll hold my carbine when I need my hands for something else, and should interfere the least with shoulder and weapon transitions. It’ll be nice too, when I go to the range to be able to just unclip my carbine/ SG from the sling and set it down…leaving the sling over my shoulder.

I understand it may not be a wonderful option for chasing down suspects, and patrolling…but I know folks who’ve done both, and still prefer the single point.

Thanks for the feedback so far…any clarification any might be able to give is still more than welcome!

13

Slings - I used both the BFG and The Wilderness slings. Was happy with both of them.

Mounts - Used the Tango Down and BFG mounts on my M4 overseas and the TD mount on my AR at work here. Both mounts I had downrange failed. The sling screw stripped out of the mount on the BFG model and the alloy top bracket on the TD model sheered.
Both companies replaced the items as soon as they became aware of it. BFG sent a new mount, TD re-designed their bracket & began building it out of steel not an alloy and shipped me a new one within a week or two.

For the shotgun, I used a GGG sling plate when I was still using a single point.

14

MId west Ind. makes a nice single point sling mount for your remington shotgun and it’s easy to install.Mounted one on my mossberg and installed a specter gear sling. I like the fact this set up allows you to pump your gun as fast as you want with nothing to get in the way.For a shotgun I like it.

15

I am all about single point slings on a breaching shotgun, as long as you have some kind of catch to keep it stationary.

CB-
Be cautious of your sources for info. I understand that they are your friends, and you don’t know me from Adam, so take this however you want.

Military members, unless they are with an upper tier unit, only really know what they are given, and simply don’t know what they don’t know. The USMC has been issuing a terrible 3-point for the last few years, so just about anything else seems better. However, putting a SP on an A4 will cause me some doubt about the individual’s decision-making ability.

The SP was pretty much the perfect SWAT sling until tactical 2-points hit, so I understand why your cop buddy likes it.

Since you don’t know me and I am criticising the advice given by your friends, I’ll let you see what someone else has to say on the matter- Carbine Slings

Of course, if all you are going to use the sling for is to keep your gun off the ground while at the range, just about anything will work. I really don’t care what you buy, I am not selling anything nor do I receive compensation for my advice here. I don’t mean to come across as a dick, I am just saying what I know to be true based on my experience.

ETA- Apologies for this post not having anything to do with the initial question, but it is an answer to a question by the OP, hopefully informing and entertaining anyone seeking info on this topic.

16

F2S, I understand where you’re coming from, and I appreciate it.

I know for a fact that my buddy played around with adjustable 2pt slings…he had some made before they popular here, I’ve seen em. It looks more like the Viking one with the free running end, than the Vickers. My buddy isn’t the average swat cop by any means, he started the team 25 years ago and has been leading it since. He keeps his eyes out for all the new toys…he just finds the single point the best for his application.

I’ve read Vickers article, it seems to echo what a lot of people here think…I’m not writing it off, I’d just like to try the single points out myself.

17

I use CSM Gear - it WORKS.

18

CB-
I absolutely encourage you to try different things out. What works for one might not work for another, and might be perfect for yet another.

If I was working in a CQB dedicated role, I would most likely have no reason to use anything other than a 1-point sling. Innovation and experimentation is what gave us single point slings, three point slings, and tactical two point slings. If nobody tried new things we would still all have muzzle-loaders with leather slings.

I by no means intended to imply that I believe that I am the final word of truth in tactical discussions. Anybody claiming to be such would not be welcome in any of my discussions. I also did not mean to imply that your SWAT buddy is incompetant, just defining his criteria for use.

By all means, try them out. :slight_smile:

19

I recently switched to a vickers two point on my m-4 because I was tired of the muzzel hitting the ground every time I bent over. I read your recent post where you stated single points work good as long as you have some way of securing of securing your shotgun so it wont move? Can you tell me who makes such a product and where I can find one?

20

Some guys simply sew in a velcro strip on their support side pantleg on the thigh and that holds the weapon fairly securely and allows it to deploy in a reasonably rapid fashion.