Dude the OP’s post was about Home Defense. Spray firing in that scenario is just plain stupid.
If you want to spray and pray with family members in vicinity go right ahead.
Me…Once I’ve got a general fix on the potential threat either audibly or visibly I’m gonna get a positive ID using a white light before I engage!
Call me crazy but I like to make sure the people I’m shooting deserve to be shot and that it’s not my teenager stumbling home in the middle of the night when he should have already been in bed.
Let us also add a 5th catagory. The responders to this thread has had REAL training on both platforms by professional instructors.
If you are one of the FEW people that have had formal shotgun and carbine training, the next question is, have you run said weapons in a shoot house??
Having been formally trained on both weapons by some of the best instructors in the world, I will give me .02.
Let’s get this out of the way first. The gun that you use to defend your life with SHOULD be the weapon that you train the most with. So if that is a Ruger 10/22, then so be it.
The SG is devastating tool. Nothing matches its punch. With that said, it has limitations. Round capacity, accuracy, length and over penetration (IE going through too many walls). The case can be made that birdshot makes sense at room distances, but doesn’t work so well much past that.
If you are going to use a SG, which do you go with? Pump or semi? The answer to me is somewhat complex. Having seen MULTIPLE high level shooters short stroke a pump under low amounts of stress, I think a semi makes the most sense (as long as the semi starts with the letter B). If your semi doesn’t start with the letter “B” then I would say that the pump is the way to go.
To me, the AR is really the best tool in the the tool box for defense/CQB. It gives you speed, accuracy, capacity, fragmentation and shortness. It also gives you a much longer range capability than the SG does.
This is why most every SWAT team in America and SF group uses it.
as to the first- the M4/AR platform is one of the best combinations of accuracy, speed, controllability, and capacity on earth. whether facing a single burglar with a crow-bar or a full platoon of professional soldiers, if you’re the average American man, you’re now in the greatest danger you’ve ever been in your entire life, or most likely ever will be. you’d be selling yourself short by using anything less than the “best” tool for the job. i’ve never understood this mentality that because you’re not on a battlefield, you’re not in combat. that’s totally untrue- if you’re employing a weapon against another human being, you’re IN COMBAT, fighting to the death for survival. and the odds aren’t great that you’ll walk away unscathed.
as to the second- unless this is instinctive to you, and you’ve chosen this as your method because you first observed its instinctive to you, or you regularly train this way (as in, several times a month, and in monotonous repetition), you probably won’t rack and step to the side. you’ll probably just hunch up and stand still so’s to maintain the best sight-picture you can. but even if you did, you can’t really do this is you’re in a hallway, and even if you could, you can only step so far to the side… he still knows which general direction the sound came from, and may just spray the whole area down.
as to the third- you cant expect to control what others in the house are doing, because there’s no guarantee it’ll be 3am rather than 3pm, or that someone wont be using the bathroom when the SHTF, or that anyone will suspect that gunfire will erupt 30 seconds after you leave to “check on that noise,” shotgun in hand. if i made my wife lay on the bedroom floor at every noise she asked me to go check out, she’d just tell me to fuck off.
as to the fourth- this is why EVERY HD weapon should have a white light. you MUST be able to identify your target before making the decision to fire.
having at least a chance of catching the intruder by surprise, blasting a 120 lumen white light at him, and being able to identify whether he’s one of your kids or a drunk neighbor or maybe even a COP, or an actual bonified “bad guy”… and then the ability to quickly send 5, 6, 7, 8, 9+ rounds into him… all very important things.
most people don’t get this hardcore about it… and i can hardly criticize too much, as i don’t always follow the best safety practices in the hazardous environment i work in, nor do i always wear my seatbelt, nor do i pay much attention to expiration dates on my milk jug. but since we’re on THIS topic, i’m just trying to present the most helpful argument i can.
The shotgun does almost NOTHING better than a carbean. Lower ammo capacity, monster flash, monster recoil, generally too long of a weapon, worse penetration if the threat is soft body armored, less desireable platform for weapon light, slower to reload, etc.
All of these downsides…yet you’ll see fools all over the interwebs who find nothing wrong with locking their decked out AR carbine up in the safe at night and setting the bird gun out for home defense. :rolleyes:
Now if you’re a farm boy and have never messed with a carbean, trained with a carbean, or plan to practice with a carbean… then it might not be the BEST choice for you.
Well personally in my situation, I still think a shotgun will work best because of a few variables
I live WAAAYYYYYYY out in the country. With 3 very large dogs. By the time someone makes it through them, they are in a bad situation or they killed my dogs, in which case I would hear the shots and know it’s not a friendly. My dogs would not pay any attentions to anyone who would be welcome at that time of night.
I have a fairly small and open house. No long or narrow hallways to navigate. And any encounter in my house will be nearly point blank.
With that being said, I have learned a few things that I will also employ. I will apply a flashlight with my shotgun and the answer to the OPs question depends on a lot.
What is the layout of their house like? (long narrow hollways, large house, lacation?)
What is the OP more use to handling, or which do they have more experience with?
So you shoot you train with a SG more than a pistol or AR??
The size of your house matters not. You STILL have to aim a SG. You also run a MUCH greater risk of killing someone in another room (when using buckshot and slugs).
For home defence I prefer my BCM Middy with white light, Aimpoint T-1 Micro and Hornady 75 grain TAP. The carbine gives the end user greater flexibility in terms of tactical employment, also the ability to deal with a range of threats.
I actually train all my weapons pretty equally. I usually bring my AR, SG, .45, and 7mm Rem when I go to practice shooting. I am actually very proficient at using any of these.
The SG is probably where my longest relationship lays. I’ve kept one by my bed since I was a teenager. I guess old habits die hard.
And I do still have to aim, but at point blank range, bird shot does the job and requires a little less effort aiming no?
You are correct it is calm. So I might as well fuel the fire. At close range 10 yards and under my vote says 00 or 000 buckshot/ slug trumps any 5.56. Dr. Roberts I believe reported that a shotgun with a good slug was potentially more decisive round than any 5.56.
Not to totally derail this thing and understanding that the OP was only asking about Shotguns and AR’s, I’d still like to add that 99% of the time when something goes bump in the night and I am Voluntold by HH6 to go see what it is I reach for my M&P .45 with X400 attached.
My SBR is within arms reach but unless I’m pretty damn sure that some one is in or attempting to get in my house I much prefer the handgun for investigating figments of my wife’s imagination or the cat knocking something off the kitchen counter.
I could delve into a whole host of other considerations regarding searching one’s house (of which I believe there has been a recent thread) and reasons why it’s not a good idea by yourself or why you may have to do it regardless of how wise it is, the OP was merely asking what weapons we chose for home defense and why…so I’ll just leave it at that.
