I’m looking to start working on a semi-precision, compact carbine for a general purpose bolt gun. It will be used as a hunting and target rifle that I want to be small and handy. Kind of like a “Scout” rifle, but leaning towards the precision side. So far I’m thinking about getting a Remington 700 SPS tactical in .308 Win. It has a 20" barrel that I would like to get cut down to 16" and threaded 5/8x24 for brake and eventual suppressor use. One thing that I can’t figure out (due to Remington’s convoluted website) is the twist of the barrel. The website says 1 in 12" but most other .308 barrels in the SPS line are 1 in 10." I plan on mostly shooting 150-168 grain hunting and target ammo. I also want to add detachable bottom metal for AICS magazines. I’m looking at Badger, Battle Arms and CDI Precision. For glass I am looking for something in the mid range such as a Leupold MR/T 2.5-8x36. Except for some rare occasion, I won’t be shooting over 300 due to range limitations and local hunting terrain. Any input or suggestions on the above mentioned products, or concept in general will be appreciated.
Just get the Ruger Scout Rifle… Google it… It’s gotten some great reviews… Also comes standard as magazine fed. Converting a Rem 700 to accept magazines cost $$$ and is often inconsistent among gunsmiths, so it could end up having magazine feeding issues.
I’m aware that it would be cheaper to get the Ruger Scout Rifle, but I’m afraid it won’t be accurate enough for what I want. I’ve read several positive reviews, but most seem to say that it’s a 1.5-2 MOA rifle at best. I’m looking for at least 1 MOA. I have a couple of precision ARs that I can shoot to .75 MOA, and I don’t see the point of a bolt gun that isn’t close to that.
This doesn’t make any sense. You want a “semi precision, compact carbine for a general purpose bolt gun”. You then say you’re likely going to run low end 150-168gr factory ammo at ranges inside 300 yards. So which is it? A general purpose rifle, or a precision rifle? By the ammo you’re intending to use, and the range at which you’re going to shoot, the Ruger Scout is more than adequate as far as accuracy is concerned. Short of match ammo I doubt you’ll achieve the 1 moa or sub moa accuracy level you’re looking for. For hunting at 300 yards and less even an moa gun will/should get you a 3" group which is more than adequate for an effective kill shot.
MM
3" groups are not what I want. Will it kill a deer? Sure, but what’s wrong with wanting an accurate rifle? 3" groups won’t cut it if you are shooting at a 2" target. I never said it was going to be a sniper rifle. Where in my post did I say that I was only going to shoot junk ammo?I don’t know what rifles you shoot, but I have shot many rifles that will hold 1" groups with factory ammo. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. I agree that what I’m looking for is a more accurate version of a Ruger scout rifle. If I am capable of shooting 1 MOA, why not have a rifle that can too?
I don’t have one and can’t speak for them–but jump in deep! Although a good smith should be able to build one for less than that. It’s nice, but I don’t see 5k.
That is along the lines of what I’m looking for, except not nearly that kind of money. I want to build one that loosely resembles that Black Ops rifle (same basic concept anyway).
I would give Mark Gordon of Short Action Customs a shout to see what he can build for you. Chad Dixon of Long Rifles is another person that does great work.
Agreed. Too bad the AI Covert is so rare.
I forgot, check with Hooper Ordnance, he has done work for me also and maybe a good choice.
http://www.hooperordnance.com/page.aspx
A possible avenue is to pick up a 700 5R with the 20" threaded 5/x24. You could leave the stock as is or add a Manners with certain features. Have a smith machine and install irons. It appears that the front is a modified YHM front flip and the rear maybe the same. Height is obviously altered to minimize height over bore and high enough to allow iron usage without removing the cheekpad or adjusting the stock comb if applicable. You can’t have the irons to low as in fixed otherwise comb height needs to be adjusted for one or the other. The Terry Cross(KMW) cheek hardware would be a nice feature, There’s a guy “stockdoc” on Snipers Hide that does this work.
For the flip sights, bases would need to be modified or one fabricated to allow for a spring loaded detent. Look though Brownel’s at what they offer and in the catalog there’s a formula for determining sight height, etc.
I would go with the Seekins Precision detachable mag system if wanting that feature.
For the life of me, I don’t know why Winchester, Remington or even Savage doesn’t make a decent production rifle like this, they would sell like hotcakes. Although I (hopefully speculate) that FNH may have something along the lines coming, minus the irons though. When looking at the Eberlestock chassis, deduct the price of parts and labor and the price looks better. For the most part you don’t get back labor when selling unless somebody really important did it.
Use you imagination and get a second job!
http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_3&products_id=14
http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_3&products_id=17
http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_3&products_id=16
http://www.kmwlrs.com/LoggerHead%20ACP.htm
http://mannersstocks.com/
http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/StoreFront
http://shop.milehighshooting.com/Remington-700-5R-308-Win-20-Threaded-5-8x24-5200.htm?productId=714
http://www.seekinsprecision.com/detachable-bottom-metal-153.html
or-----
http://www.eberlestock.com/M11%20Stealth%20Rifle%20Chassis.htm
I’m running a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight Compact. 20 inch barrel, holds 5 rounds of .308. I will have a Leupold VX3 1.75-6x on it in a few weeks. I have a practical rifle class in Feb. that I’ll get to put a few hundred rounds through to test it out.
If you want to spend some coin get a Brockman Rifle version that will come with the ability to mount a scout scope, conventional scope and Aimpoint.
Same here but with the VX6 1-6, love it.
I was looking at those as well. But I “think” I’ll get a little better light transmission with the 32mm of the VX3. How “true” is the 1x on the VX6?
Has excellent light transmission and as far as I can tell, 1x. The 2-12 is nice also if wanting more magnification and low power. I have to get the custom dials yet for the 1-6, have them for the 2-12(150 Fed Trophy Copper@2850) Need to chrono first.
You said you want the rifle for general purpose and to be “semi precision”. You said you would likely be running 150-168gr ammo which on the low end is less than the ideal weight for precision ammo and indicates bulk/surplus ammo. Perhaps I’m reading into your post but you didn’t say you would be reloading for this rifle so half the recipe for precision you’re leaving up to commercial ammo.
The reports of the Ruger Scout being a 1.5-2moa rifle are just that, reports. That doesn’t mean it isn’t capable of greater precision. Are those reports with the irons, a scout scope or best case scenario with medium to high power glass and bagged?
Nothing wrong with wanting and/or getting more accuracy than is needed, I don’t think anyone has ever complained about an over accurate rifle. However, if you’re looking for general purpose and inside 300 yards without spending crazy money(like the stellar setup linked above) I think you might be hard pressed to find that sub moa rifle. Your initial post sounded confused, like you wanted both a precision and GP rifle.
MM
ETA: This review I found and its subsequent 1.3-2.1moa results were done with the iron sights on the Ruger Scout.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_gunsite_scout_rifle.htm
Iron sights are next to worthless on this sort of rifle. A spare scope would make sense though.
What I would really like to see is a bolt action with three lugs for a 60* throw, using AIAW magazines and wearing an 18" #5 barrel with threads. Bedded into an McM adj htg with KMW hardware and some rails on the front.
An FN action would be almost perfect but you can’t use a double column magazine.
Of course you have to look at cost-benefit and is it worth the extra dough to gain maybe a sub moa gun vs. a fat moa one. Look into ammunition which can be a huge part of the system. For a gun like this, maybe good hunting ammunition either factory or reloaded and use that for everything you do
Bottom line-make up your mind for what you really want to do with it and put together the best tool for the task. You can have a “do all” rifle, but the biggest obstacle people run into is usually weight. Don’t expect to build a 8 pound gun that will run along any 12-15 pound precision rig-maybe for the first few shots if at all.
Since Ruger is the only one making anything worth a crap right now on this topic, that may be your best bet. I would like to see a aluminum or steel bottom metal and at least a Bell and Carlson stock on it.
Many options out there, again just ask what you want of it.
This moa with FGMM and factory barrel, cut to about 17.5. I built this for my son when he was 11 and the brake was for him shooting standard loads all day-it’s like a .223 or less. I now load reduced loads for positional training, etc-really nice in the Win 70. (see link below)(mine is 35 grains of the H4895 and 125 SpH @ 2275)
standard sps in .308, barrel cut/threaded
Leupold 1.25-5 with QRW rings
Holland quick discharge brake
NECG banded front with gold bar/hood
Ashley Outdoors, XS, whatever they call themselves rear peep/base.
The stock pack has to come off for the irons(as mentioned above) or if I used a non padded version now offered. It’s usable in a pinch, just not ideal.
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf
Is that a factory front sight or no?
MM
Thanks for all the replies. I’m not concerned with iron sights, so that won’t be an issue. It is entirely possible to build a compact, accurate bolt gun that doesn’t weigh 15 pounds. The Ruger scout is close to what I want, but not accurate enough for what I want to do with it. I don’t understand the idea that factory ammo is not accurate enough for my needs. I’ve used lots of Black Hills factory ammo that is as accurate as any handload. I’m just leery of buying the Ruger rifle that may only be a 2 moa gun, and has a plastic trigger guard and magazine well. If there is confusion or contention about what I want:
.308 bolt rifle
16-18" barrel
~8 lbs without scope
1 MOA or better
Also, what is the consensus on barrel twist? Would 1 in 10" be preferable? Sort of like 1 in 7" is prefered for 5.56? I don’t need to shoot light bullets, and will most likely use 150 and up.