1/8 is a pretty popular twist rate with precision barrels, including BCM.
It stabilizes anything that can fit in the magazine more efficiently than 1/7 apparently.
I am impressed with the changes to the vtac rifle & it seems like a good optic ready carbine with many of the upgrades already in place. I was a bit shocked at the MSRP though. Seems like $2G is the new pricepoint for “premium” rifles these days.
DJMorris,
Yea thanks for the compliment. I am rather new here, other than lurking, but I just like to have honest discussion to help people make informative decisions about purchasing, or building, a weapon system that their life, or their comrades’ life, may depend on.
I believe barrels designed to be "combat effective", in a sense meaning adaptability to broad range of ammunition and able to be place accurate fires, like BCM Recce barrels, and others tend to utilize the 1:8 twist. 1:8 twist is still easily fast enough to stabilize the heavier grain bullets, but all also is slower, not to over-stabilize the lighter grain bullets, causing them to yaw, and possibly keyhole. Generally speaking, and please correct me if I am wrong, but the slower the twist rate, the greater the durability and barrel life. I think you don't see more 1:8 twist rates because they're simply not common or popular, it's almost like a wildcat cartridge in a way... Nice, but not necessarily needed. Most, typically your lower grade, or cheaper, barrels tend to utilize the 1:9 twist for people that want to press the lighter grain, shoter, bullets. Typically used for plinking and such because they're cheaper... Some high end 1:7 "mil spec" barrels tend to "over stabilize" lighter grain bullets and cause degrading accuracy or even key-holing. I had a nice LMT Barrel a while back that MUCH preferred the heavier grain bullets. My groups would open, noticeably, when pressing lighter grain ammunition. It was still "minute of man" accurate to about 250-300 yards or so, before accuracy was heavily degraded or I was noticing keyholes in my targets.
About the handguns, not to digress, yea I had heard their quality a few years back was questionable, but from what I have been hearing, their M&P series is rock-solid now. Starting to break a market in the LEO world that has been dominated, and still is, by Glock. However, I wouldn’t hesitate to pick-up a nice M&P Pistol, with an APEX kit installed, and drive it. Just seems like overall, S&W is, maybe trying, to improve their standards and quality.
Hope I didn't speak out my arse too much and help answer your questions. If I did so, please correct me. I don't mind constructive reinforcement. It's how we learn. Thanks again.
Hope this helps some...
MTDawg,
Yea, but it isn’t overly awful if you think and add up all of the upgrades you would do to make a rifle like that… The handguards are roughly $180, the Geissele trigger is $240, Troy BUIS is $120, VLTOR IMOD is $100?, VTAC accessories and sling another $100? So not overly bad when they, the rifle, can be had for $1600 or so…
Beat me to it.
I understand that 1/8 is commonly used in SS precision barrels, etc but does it really offer any advantages over a 1/7 twist ratio for a duty/battle rifle or is S&W just trying to find a sweet middle ground to please both sides? If 1/8 were truly the better ratio for a standard duty rifle then I’d imagine top shelf AR companies would have already picked up on it for their standard.
p.s. I’m not trying to say either way - I’m just here to learn and discuss. 
DJMorris,
Yea np, I believe it probably has something to do with the popularity of the others and probably cost. Parts, equipment, and the tooling needed for the 1:8 twist i would imagine is costly and if there isn’t a big market for it currently, could equal bad returns for the company… I think as it become more known and popular, we will see more companies utilizing it… There are already a couple that do like PWS and few others…
Also,
It does offer some advantage as an all around combat twist rate. As i stated earlier, it’s the middle ground that is still easily fast enough to stabilize the heavier bullets and slow enough to not over stabilize the lighter ones… In “combat purposes” it would mean, you could pick-up and any random ammunition found, collected, or looted and it would effectively fire and hit minute of man regardless of the weight.
I was under the impression that this was basically the advantage of a 1/7 twist ratio… I’d imagine manufacturers would have considered the 1/8 twist before jumping to 1/7, especially if it’s ‘better’. So, with that being said, you’re implying that S&W is ahead of Colt, BCM, LMT, Noveske, and KAC in terms of barrel technology? 1/7 is the new 1/9? :o
Lol! Now lets not get that started. Nope that is not what I am saying. I believe 1:7 is the mil spec. Just like anything else, the mil spec can be improved upon. I just believe it’s not commonly known yet, or as popular, as 1:7 twist. I believe 1:8 generally is has little more durability too… Kinda why you see it used a lot in stainless steel barrel that are little less durable than chrome lined. So in hopes it kind of offsets that issue.
I don’t think it’s a matter of S&W being ahead of the others, but more that they aren’t building to Mil Spec which requires a 1/7 twist rate for the M4 doesn’t it?
cool!
Frankly, we’re off in the weeds on this.
If I could go back in time I would make the 1/9 barrels go away and make everything 1/8. It would reduce the internet minutiae obsessing to barely audible background noise.
But if you did that what would Bushmaster sell?
:sarcastic:
Nice! Haha… Indeed we have digressed. Anyone else have some input and thoughts on the new VTAC II by S&W M&P?
Admittedly, I haven’t done the math. Assuming a good street price it could be a decent deal as the rifle is a very nice combination of components. The barrel in particular is very interesting to me. I followed the same logic when acquiring my SR15 a few years ago.
Yea, a friend of mine, whom is in the loop with connections to people, lots of people, stated he was told the barrels are made by Obermeyer Barrels for S&W… Obermeyer has extensive knowledge with 5R rifling barrels… Now don’t go and assault me, I am just telling what I was told. Would be really nice though.
i have extensive use with the 5r barrels just not in 5.56 works fine but it isnt any better that any thing else that is done with care imho if the company takes pride in assembly
weight you can get a ddm4v7lw ( got mine for 1149) that weighs 5.78 pounds and is hundreds less and way better cs in my experience
at 100 meters i shoot 0.63 5 round group out of a ga precision 7.62 gladius 18in barrel muzzle break blah blah blah but this is a bolt gun yet i have a rem 700 5r military overrun rifle and i cant get it under 1.32 inch 5 round group so the rifling means nothing but i can see in my groups the difference between a 900 dollar rifle and a 4300 dollar rifle
for the cost of this new vtac rifle you can get a basic noveske and a t1 if you want a accurate m4
I can say this for a fact- S&W is not doing type 3 hard coat anodizing.
I have seen a colt and S&W upper and lower get media blasted. The S&W just blew off like blowing dust off a shelf. The colt took WAY more time.
Not sure if this is still the case since they now apparently do their upper/lowers in house.
Warrior, based on this post it’s obvious you have more than a basic understanding of rifles and the AR platform.
So with several more proven viable options, why would you be considering the S&W?
Bringing attention to the new offering (which is an improvement) I get…