Reasons to upgrade NVGs? (binos, WP, etc)

Tactical Gear Optics & Mounts
1

With a standard PVS14 what is the cost/benefit of upgrading? Assuming there is no use for the 14 anymore, and you take a $1k hit by selling, is grabbing a set of 15s in green or WP worth it?

I like having one eye that retains natural night vision. After using NV for a few hours my monocular eye has an orange tint to it that is very dark. I don’t think I’d want both eyes looking like that.

Does depth perception really increase with binos that much? I’ve looked through them a bunch, but never walked around a mucky Texan cow pasture or Florida swamp or Iraqi desert with them as I have with 14s so I can’t base my purchase on experience which is something I always try to do.

It’s not really about the money, but it is. $8000+ is big money to do something that I can already do.

2

Its a good difference in depth perception. You can estimate distances better, and the view feels more natural, even if green. If you want to drive with them or move rapidly over terrain they help. Its also easier to read or use in varying light conditions, but that may be because all the 14’s I’ve used are older. 15s also provide a better image, but come with a weight/balance penalty. I always liked 6s better for balance, and the switched battery pack.

Coming out of my own pocket, I would probably stick to 14s unless you have money to burn. I think they’re more versatile and better suited for realistic civilian use. I wouldn’t suggest upgrading until you have enough cash to buy the 15s and try them both side by side for a while, and see if they really give you an advantage in your typical uses.

3

Thanks.

I’ve actually used these so much I feel pretty good driving and walking around despite the limited depth perception. My biggest gripe with 14s is actually the narrow focus “band”. It’s like I have to refocus at 5y 10y 25y 50y 100+ etc. not to mention seeing anything up close.

Is there a set of NV that is better at this? I can’t imagine SEALs raiding Bin Ladens house adjusting their NV focus every 30 seconds depending on room size. Am I wrong?

In a C130 over Iraq the crew let me use their binos. I believe they were ANVIS. I don’t recall them having the same issue but in hindsight they probably had the focus set for the cockpit because everything was crystal clear and there’s not much to see out the windshield anyway.

4

Aviation units have a test kit that helps with infinity focusing; primary use is for outside the cockpit, you look under the NVGs for in cockpit displays / tasks.

Most high speed ground units have binos or quad eyes, but I’m not sure there is adequate ROI on those for a hobbyist user like yourself.

5

There are drawbacks for both. It really depends on what you want them to do and how you are setting up your rifle. If you only plan to shoot with an IR laser then either will work just fine. But remember that is very limiting if other people also have NV. I saw a Big Army unit running around at nogjt in Afghanistan and it looked like some crazy Pink Floyd light show. They would have been cut to pieces if the enemy had NVG.

Also if you plan to shoot without a laser and use your reflex sight with NVG you will have to raise it up to a point that BUIS are useless. So you will need to have a dedicated night rifle.

Just food for thought.

6

You can use devices like the Tarsier Eclipse to assist with close quarters focus; ie blackout driving and using intruments on the dash or CQB. You’ll need to insure you have a supplemental IR illum source if running these indoors due to the nature of how they work. With the ambient lighting in most CONUS structures you’ll have more than enough to navigate, and if it gets too dark, that’s why you have a PEQ/Vamp light.

I focus NODs to infinity and never touch them, especially binos. Even better with a 14 is that if shit goes white light I have an unaided eye to perform those tasks; medical/PUCing someone as an example. You can also just flip your NODs up when you’re done doing the Swiggity Swooty shit.

For my money, I’d just go for the highest quality PVS-14 I could get and would invest the money savings in quality training time. $4,000 is a ton of ammo to train with under NODs.

7

Correction to above:

I’m going to ASSume you aren’t setting charges under NODs, which would be a situation you would definitely need to manually focus them. This is where a low output headborne IR light and the Eclipse really shines, but if you have a properly set infinity focus ring it’s not necessary to have anything other than IR illum.

8

I’d probably agree. I only had the 15s for a few nights and they were incredible, but I can’t imagine dropping that much money on a single item for recreational use unless I had stupid amounts of spending money. Then again, I know TNVC does financing and if I didn’t have any other debts, maybe. A big part of that would probably be that I’d still use them at work though.

9

Yeah, when 15s came out, everyone acted like suddenly you can’t possibly drive with 14s. Kinda like how some deer hunters act like a 30-30 can’t kill a modern up-armored deer. Obviously it doesn’t work like that. 15s are better, but they don’t make 14s useless.

I seem to remember having more “depth” of focus with 15s and 6s, but I haven’t used them in about 4 years, so take that with a grain of salt. You also have twice as many adjustments to make when you refocus, so theres that.

The way I always dealt with focus, even with 14s, was to set the focus further away, and just deal with the fuzziness up close, mostly. If I really needed to focus on something close, I would do so, and them refocus back to distance. If you work in the dark enough, its easy peasy.

The way to deal with that is to only use NODs indoors when silent clearing, which is done infrequently. Its mostly done on the visible spectrum. Because realistically, once your opening doors and such, theres a good chance everyone knows your there so the best bet is to work quickly and not be tripping over $h!t. Especially if your breaching, or if you’re shooting dudes.

The guys outside on security or isolation are, of course, using NODs.

Most of the time, as soon as you make entry you tilt your head to look under the NODs and work with white light, or flip them up. White light also helps you not trip boobytraps, or accidentally bypass a bad guy thats hiding. And its a submission tool.

So use the NODs and IR lasers/illuminators as you approach the target building to pie windows and doorways as much as possible, then look under the NVGs (or flip them up) as you go through the breach point. Use your RDS or whatever with white light. Violence of action. Then SSE/TQ as fast as possible and exfil or hit follow-ons with a sense of purpose. SSE should also be done with white light.

10

Almost everything is better under binos, but how much that “better” is worth is up to someone to decide. I can not justify the cost difference when I can do every task I need as a Civ with my personal 14 just as well as my work binos.

11

Should be able to tie in a prebuilt breaching charge without focusing.

12

I’m trying to play devils advocate and think of reasons it could be necessary to not focus to infinity. They’re few and far between and easy enough to just refocus back out if the infinity focus ring is set properly.

This is very much your domain given the community you come from and I’m silently nodding in agreement with your explanation of NODs+white light TTPs above. I run ANVIS’ slightly higher in my FOV so I can peak under them for every reason you mentioned above.

Also Euro:

You can also get one of these in size 09A and drill a 6mm hole in the center for a quick focus cap. Lets you continue to use a cheaper sacrificial lens and you can pop it right off if you decide it’s not worth the hassle. I’m not sure if they will work over a magnetic compass or not if that’s something you use.

https://www.amazon.com/Butler-Creek-Flip-Open-Eye-Piece-Scope/dp/B000GU9Q2C?th=1&psc=1

13

If I had 8 K to drop on NV I’d be looking at thermal.

14

I can definitely appreciate the logic you presented. And this is exactly how Bino NODs should be set up to enable the transition to white light.

Thermals come with their own drawbacks, depending on intended use. Such as window glass. But when they have the opportunities to show their advantages, they are awesome. I would only consider them as an individual in conjunction with 14s or 15s or whatever. Unless I’m just trying to whack some critters.

15

Also if there are fires all over the place. The heat throws everything off. Best possible situation is a thermal and on to a PVS14 so that you can remove it if need be.

16

Exactly. Overlay is what wizards use

17

There is so much knowledge in this thread.

Thank you guys. Keep it coming.

18

Thermals eat batteries too. At least the MG ones most units are issued. Heard the same about PSQ 20s too, but I haven’t used those yet.

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19

Indeed. It’s now a sticky.

20

One of these days we’ll grow to necessitating a NV sub-section.

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