Re-opening the muzzle brake can of worms

I’d like to have a discussion about muzzle brakes… where they are appropriate and where not. Hoping it can be kept high level, I mean there will be various opinions I expect and hope, but there are also some facts that are irrefutable (in my opinion :cool: ). I’m not going to say things like, “if you run a muzzle brake you’re stupid”. I hope no one says “If guns are too loud for you either man up or get another job.”

First I’m not saying they should all disappear. If you want to run a brake for this or that application I don’t see why not… I say that despite my admitted anti-brake bias but I also admit to having used them in competition and just mucking around on the range. I even had brakes that I made and offered. I think they are still on my site but I haven’t sold one in years and I’m fine with that! I would take them off but sometimes it’s hard to get changes on the site. For something like PRS where you want to spot impact or three-gun where you want to take another second out of an 18-second stage, sure.

My context for the discussion is police Patrol Rifle use and self-defense. Brakes are prohibido in our Patrol Rifle classes but once in a while, for various reasons, one gets through. My prime directive Monday mornings in class is to be the Brake Nazi. I do a visual survey of everything in the room, anywhere from say 22 to 36 guns. When I spot a brake I have a discussion with the student. If it’s a brake that is a QD for a suppressor I ask if he has the can for it and there is only one right answer. When it’s something else, I gently as possible inform that it has to come off. Most guys don’t buck this-- either they didn’t realize the issue or “it’s what the Department gave me for the class.” Sometimes it’s “YES! I hate this thing, please take it off.” Once in a while the student bucks me on it and wants to run it by the lead instructor, which is not me. This is universally guys that work where personally owned rifles are allowed and maybe the department does not have much or anything in the way of qualifying specs.

These guys will say something like, “Do you know what I paid for this thing? Do you know how much recoil it takes out of the equation and how fast it enables me to shoot it?”

We prohibit them because they are loud; often the owner doesn’t realize it because he has not had to stand to the side of it while it’s being shot. Most guys when they understand the issue, go along with the program. Some will go to lengths to keep it-- explaining all kinds of reasons why they should be able to keep it on. The advantages to them, or the ego and dollar investment, appear to be more important than the health of their line mates, coworkers, teammates. Yes, I find that inconsiderate, selfish, irresponsible, and irritating.

They are not just loud. It’s not just a big increase in noise, they also spew high-velocity particles and outright concussion. Our line gets packed a little tighter sometimes than we would like. I mean if we could run students 20’ apart all the time that’d be great but it’s not the reality of our situation or of most others. Translate this to a callout. Can you tell guys to make entry but don’t be closer than 20’ to each other? Anyway-- with some brakes 20’ would not be enough even with double hearing protection. I mean, bare muzzle or proper flash hider at 20’ is already way too loud with no protection.

YES! Some are not as bad as others but the best of them in terms of less side blast are still egregious when you’re 4-5’ away… or closer. Tell me that an officer, or home defender, will never, ever have to fire a shot *right now *with a teammate or family member right alongside them. We do one evolution where I’m standing between two shooters no more than 3-4’ away, observing. Even a 16" barrel with a standard birdcage, literally hurts my teeth. If it’s a brake? I am simply not going to be there. Yes I’ve done it in the past but in recent years as we transitioned to the "no brakes " policy, I’m not going to be there any more, giving up even more hearing, shot by shot.

Anyway, “the best of them”, the least blasty, are less good at being a recoil reducer. I feel solid in saying this and have seen other opinions that it is so, although at the moment I can’t cite where I saw them (because I don’t remember). I’m not going to get into trying to rate them by brand and model as my experience with a great many of them has not been in an atmosphere conducive to taking the time to attempt it. Any ratings would be anecdotal but I can say that every last one was noticeably louder than a birdcage. Good 'nuff for me.

In the last couple weeks of classes we (I) removed 5-6 brakes. I buy A1 flash hiders and loan them to guys for the class, or if they want to own it, $5. None of us instructors are there to sell stuff but you also can’t give everything away. I often do though-- I lose most of them because at the end of the last day everything’s a jumble and it’s hard to track them all down and get them back. Guys aren’t “sneaking off” with them, they just are in a hurry to get on the road and don’t think about it. I don’t care, it’s well worth $5 a piece for 2-3 students per class, so no one has to deal with the brake hazard.

We had one this week that was pinned and welded. For those I have collars that set-screw over them to shut them up for the week but I don’t have multiple collars for every possible size, plus I’m down one that walked off last year. This week’s guy, we put him on the end when possible. Could we remove it even though pinned and welded…? Yes-- and then someone, or everyone involved, is a felon-- 14.5" barrel once it’s off. Screw an A1 on there without re-pinning and rewelding: felon. Stupid laws that help no one, make criminals out of people that do no harm other than not knowing, and actually endanger people… even cops. Same as during the idiotic “Assault Weapon” Ban where you could have brakes but not flash hiders. My, think of all the lives that were saved.

I wear 33db reduction plugs, plus muffs. I very frequently find that I have yet again unconsciously put my hands to my ears to try and seal out more noise. I am experimenting with gluing wetsuit or mousepad material to the outside of the ear shells of the muffs. My thinking is that the hard shell when struck by sound waves will transmit some to the inside-- I think the foamy rubber helps. They are electronic so of course I’m not covering the mics. I’ve tried to find electronic plugs that work, several are good as to electronics and controls but fail on noise attenuation. Anyway-- if I could find something, some combo, that worked perfectly-- it still does not solve the issue of firing a round alongside a partner / family member in an emergency.

Ned, where do linears like the [edit, apologies to Clint] BRT Covert Comp or blast shields like the Fortis Control Shield or Indian Creek BFD fit into this discussion?

I think they look cool. I have a SLR mini in titanium. I never could get it to change colors, it does reduce recoil and i havent noticed it being loud.
But to rieterate they look cool.

I’m not familiar with any of those but the Noveske KX3 and 5 are good, as is the Witt SME. That’s outside. I have not tested them in a hallway or “up against” something. “Up against” is part of the equation and I have an incident I’d like to relate but I am awaiting all the details and permission to discuss. My friend Drake Oldham did test this years ago and as I recall he rejected the KX3 because of reflected sound. We (me, any readers) need to test this! And the one ones you mentioned. But I’ll say that muzzle brakes with shields over them I have generally found to be obnoxious, creating huge fireballs that give off a noise all their own in addition to the rifle’s report. It’s like having an M80 go off at the muzzle plus the sound of the gun firing. That and the fireball, make me ask, “how is this better?” Plus-- one such rig i looked at 4-5 years ago was $455 by the time you bought the brake and found it egregious and then bought the shield to tame it. Beautifully made stuff but replacing the A2 that came on the gun with it, for nothing but disadvantages in size, weight, noise and flash…? Didn’t make sense.

Well… I don’t want to encourage you with your brake :stuck_out_tongue: but… put it in the oven at ~ 490 for a while. Not sure about Ti but on bare steel you’ll get a beautiful bronze color.

They are unbearable on 5.56 and have no place. Competition gays are no excuse.

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Im not sure its considered a brake more like a hybrid comp. But thanks for the info!

Oh, correction! This week I replaced a brake with the BRT unit and it kinda did the KX3 thing, channeling the shytstorm forward. I will be comparing it to the KX3 and Witt in the coming weeks.

I ruined my ears growing up shooting thousands of doves sans plugs & am paying the price as the ringing never stops…heck, the A1 is freak’n loud. Has anyone used just a thread protector?? It’s too bad dept’s can’t afford a handful of cans for classes.

They work, but I have no use for them. Buddy was showing me some new fancy carry I never heard of & it had a dang break on it. Can be worse on a pistol.

I was “that guy” because my Sandman came with a brake. Never used a brake before, so I bought the same brake for all my host guns. I went on one of those overpriced hog hunts with some coworkers and only about half brought hearing protection. I wanted faster swing and pulled the sandman off. After a volley of blasts even the guys with hearing protection wanted my sandman back on the weapon and one of them was shooting 300win mag. I have been converting everything to forward control flash hiders and never looked back.

Ned, A2 policy. You loan them an A2, you hold the brake as collateral. I bet your success rate increases getting your A2’s back.

Sound protection and wet suit on ear muffs…. I read where the sound waves also travel through your face/bones/etc and still create hearing loss. Maybe look at a neoprene face mask for winter courses. Maybe it would help limit the damage from shockwaves to the head.

I’m pretty sure I had double digit concussions over my formative years.
Boxing, Competative Shooting, Judo, 21 years on Tanks and another 14 repairing them takes a toll. I started developing bad headaches atfter IDPA lately and have slowed down alot.
I know you’re right about the shock waves, when I would calibrate Tank Main Guns my eyes and head would ache.

I live in Texas, so if I showed up with a Glock and wearing a black neoprene mask to shoot, I would be the Headline “Man in the Black Mask shot hundreds of times at the Rifle Range by a Bunch of real good Texans.”

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I’ll start off by saying I own a lot of rifles. I have exactly two rifles with a brake, the PWS that came stock on my SCAR17 and some Bulgarian brake that came with my SLR95 that was produced when the Ban was in effect.

Want to know whats worse than some MB’s? Ported 12ga shotguns.

There are some large rifles that will actually startle me when they are shot, I mean physically make me jump. This is with hearing protection, sometimes doubled up.

I too have had a number of concussions and have also shot too many Doves not wearing hearing protection. Luckily, my ringing is sporadic.

Nearly all of my rifles wear an A2 or BE Meyers FH. I have zero use for Muzzle Brakes of any kind, for any reason and refuse to shoot near anyone shooting one.

I only have a few opinions.

  1. Flash / brake combos such as those found on the FNC aren’t terribly obnoxious.

  2. I understand brakes as a suppressor host as they create what is essentially another expansion chamber.

But other than that, on 5.56 rifles I really don’t see the point. There isn’t a lot to tame and certain designs like the mini Y comp found on Clinton era Bushmasters are incredibly loud.

I only plan to keep 1 brake. That is the one on the M99. I just don’t feel the need to use them on anything smaller. It was nice on my Scout when shooting several rounds to prevent my shoulder from flaring up, but it is the next to go.

Dissenting opinion here…

I use the Surefire SOCOM brake on everything. Empirically it is the better suppressor host (compared to Surefire flash hiders and War Comp) and as someone mentioned, a sacrificial baffle.

In terms of recoil, there is a noticeable decrease in muzzle rise and impulse. I find this very beneficial for spotting splash in precision rifle matches and reduction in splits in typical 2/3-Gun.

Now, I typically run cans outside of matches but also use the Surefire Warden for classes/group shooting if I’m not going to use a can.

TL;DR

I like brakes, use them exclusively.

Muzzle brakes are not allowed in High Power matches locally. I often shoot a Stag Arms carbine that originally had a factory muzzle brake. I removed the brake and installed a GI flash hider. I haven’t seen any change in accuracy at 200 yards or noticed that it takes much longer to recover from recoil between shots during the rapid-fire stage. I’ve fired 3 gun matches at our club and haven’t missed the muzzle brake…

I can understand the need for a muzzle brake on a .30 caliber rifle, but do not see the need for a muzzle brake on a .223 caliber carbine.

I presume Ned’s handling out A1s so there’s no need to time them. Makes sense. Crank it on and go.

Me, I have no use for brakes on my guns (5.56mm ARs), and would rather not be shooting or training alongside those using them. A2s w/ crush washers on everything here, no matter the barrel length. We shun diversity when we find things that work well! HA!

I’ve tried a couple (can’t remember which ones), and didn’t feel the juice was worth the squeeze. With proper technique I have no problem managing the recoil from what the late great Col. Jeff Cooper so affectionately called “the poodle-shooter”.

I don’t compete, per se, but I’m generally content with my splits in various drills.

Can’t speak to their effectiveness or utility in heavier recoiling platforms.

I can say that in certain situations/applications, greater noise signature and/or concussion would be highly undesirable.

I disagree on certain points.

There are a few brakes that serve to reduce muzzle movement off-target, and are not as “Blasty” as others. I choose the Advance Precision EFAB Hybrid Brake.

I agree there are others (specifically the Miculek) that are great at absolutely reducing muzzle movement at the cost of loosening your feelings, liquifying your ear wax, blasting the front of your trousers, and generally raising dust or ceiling flocking to come down.

Teaching patrol rifle bubbas en masse, twenty patrolmen shoulder-to-shoulder is **not **the audience – but they absolutely will be influenced watching champion 3-Gun shooters or assaulters and their choices to want the Gucci accessory. They are different target and experience groups.

As for individual, private shooters – I doubt they will be shooting in their homes in close proximity to three or four others maneuvering on a home invader. I would also submit firing a 16-inch carbine indoors, with or without a brake, is going to get people’s attention and be unpleasant, even WITH hearing protection.

A standard bird cage is the simplest and cheapest solution. A suppressor adds cost, weight, flexibility, and compliance paperwork ass-pain, as well as losing the noise shock effect of a firearm going off in close proximity.

I use a Precision Armament EFAB on my 16" .308, works as advertised.
.308 is loud and concussive with or without a brake as it is but the EFAB doesn’t blow everything off the table like a full on brake.

For 5.56 I don’t see a need for anything more than an A2 for what I have.
A local trainer doesn’t allow them at class and I believe he will swap them out also.

I used a spikes dynacomp for awhile and it changed the tone of the shot. Gave it a deeper sound somehow.