Magpul makes one called the BEV block that is similar to the reaction rod. I’ve not used it myself. The general opinion I’ve been hearing is that it’s better than the standard clamshell type but not as good as the reaction rod. If you plan on working on ARs in the future, then I would suggest the reaction rod. Buy once cry once and never look back. If you never plan on working on another AR, then there’s really no downside to just getting a clamshell block. Or you can also make youself a barrel vice block out of some scrap wood. You just need to make a little V shape in two pieces of wood. You can accomplish that with a router or a table saw with the blade set at an angle. That’s the route I would go if this will be the extent of your tinkering with ARs.
This is how I read of it on another forum. I over did it trying to get the stupid flaming pig on my KX3 to not be upside down. All of a sudden I was keyholing rounds. I went back to my vortex. Problem solved, but I don’t think it was the KX3, it was too much torque on the muzzle threads.
That should reassure the OP. I’ve never heard of over torquing a flash hider causing permanent damage. According to everything I’ve read, your accuracy will return to normal once the pressure is relieved, so long as you haven’t put hundreds of rounds through it at least.
Regarding the flaming pig, I think that installs directly without any washers. I looked into one at one time, and I remember reading that it didn’t need to be timed. If you want it to show the logo in a certain orientation, I would suggest trying a shim. I think a crush washer would be way too thick if it’s designed to bottom out on the shoulder.
From Noveske’s site:
[QUOTEP]lease be aware that the M15x1 KX3 does not use a crush washer or wire ratchet. The markings on the M15x1 KX3 will NOT time with the rifle. This is cosmetic only.[/QUOTE]
Hans, your a scholar and a gentleman. Thank you.
Lol, I didn’t know the BEV block existed…thats perfect for me.
What I like is not having to take the rail off. Needless to say…that and a crush washer ordered.
SO glad I didn’t shoot it…and very thankful this site exists…
First, you won’t know if you over torqued the muzzle device and hurt accuracy until you shoot your rifle. It won’t hurt to take the rifle out to see how it shoots. It won’t hurt anything to remove the muzzle device and start over, either.
Second, don’t use a crush washer. A shim kit costs more but it makes the installation of muzzle devices much easier. In my experience, the torque needed to set a crush washer can vary widely. Torque with shims is more consistent and controllable
Would you be willing to put that in writing?:laugh:
He was telling you not to buy a reaction rod. Probably because if you truly torqued the flash hider as much as you say, you may run the risk of loosening the barrel extension while removing the flash hider.
Well we shall soon see the depth of my stupidity, or not hopefully.
Cause I’m pulling it off. Going to make for certain that the FH threads all the way on first and then go from there. I do recall trying to do that with no crush in place and it did not thread all the way to the shoulder.
Sure as hell won’t ever make this mistake again, I assure you.
BEV and new crush already ordered. Thanks again for all the replies.
Why must I always learn the hard way lol.
That was likely carbon causing that resistance towards the end. It can make it hard to finger tighten, but it’s not really a factor once the wrench is involved. It’s reasonably certain that you took care of any carbon when you torqued it on the new barrel, so you shouldn’t have any problems now. Get in there with a light and see if the threads look to be in good shape. Good luck, hope everything works out.
Failure to read or understand post 17 & 28 + menonite barrel = Good chance OP suffers from self induced ass hurt. Not 100% but good chance if its as tight as he says it is.
Will do my man. I’ll post up the results when the PROPER tools arrive.
And if I screwed anything up, then so be it.
It’ll be a bitter pill to swallow if I did, but any damage I did is easier to take than someone else (local gun shops) doing it. Every time I’ve taken it somewhere it’s not to my satisfaction, which was the impetus behind me doing it myself. I good with whatever happens from here on. Everything else I did is spot on so I’ve got that going for me. It’s not all bad news. Got caught by the variables that were unknown to me. Life lesson learned.
Well the good news is now when someone else has this issue and they search it on the web they’ll find this thread. That’s a win.
Quite possibly at my expense, lol, but if this helps one guy out it’ll be worth it. You don’t know what you don’t know.
I have sucesssfully installed my SSA…Vltor A5…replaced my extractor and ejector spring…set a new gas block with a new gas tube…this was my first setback. I have this site to thank for those accomplishments. I’m on here daily sponging up all the info available here…just didn’t see this as being an issue. I always hit the search here as it functions wonderfully if I have a question that needs answering. This one little thing wasn’t on my radar.
My lack of patience reared it’s rather ugly head and I went a bridge too far. I knew it needed to be timed correctly so I continued…mistake on my part.
The BEV block works like a reaction rod: they both index on the barrel extension. I’m guessing you didn’t torque the flash hider as much as you say, so you’ll probably be ok. But neither is a good choice given your circumstances.
Yes sir. I copy.
If I encounter what seems to be too much resistance pulling the FH off, then the rail will come off and I’ll fashion some barrel vise blocks to isolate the torque to the barrel itself and not to the barrel extention. My KMR installation is spot on perfect by now lol…got that part down pat.
Unless I’m not copying…are we all saying just pull the rail and go with barrel vise blocks to be 100 percent sure?
If so then thats how I’ll attack it to get it off and use the BEV for reinstall…
OP - Just in case, let me explain. When the posters above are saying that a Reaction Rod or a BEV are not the ideal fixtures to use for removal or installation of a muzzle device they are concerned because those devices work by isolating the torque from barrel nut installation to the barrel extension and not the upper receiver, in theory.
In your application, you are firmly securing the barrel extension and, for removal of a muzzle device, twisting the barrel in the direction one normally would to remove the barrel from the extension.
The barrel extension should be torqued to 150 foot pounds and probably have some type of thread locker applied. Most muzzle devices are going to have a torque specification of 15 to 20 foot pounds. The difference in torque values should be about 130 foot pounds, so normally using a Reaction Rod or a BEV wouldn’t present a problem, however these are not the correct fixtures for the application. In your case, since you report that you used a lever to time the muzzle device and don’t know for sure what torque you actually applied, there is additional concern.
You can get some pretty inexpensive padded vise fixtures that will work for holding your barrel at Home Depot, Lowes or any tool store. They don’t have to be ‘official M4’ vise blocks. You can also find them pretty inexpensively a lot of places, here is one of the first hits on a google search:
http://www.amazon.com/Barrel-Vise-Rifle-Pistol-Barrels/dp/B00GRDF7OI
You can also make your own - I made one out a piece of hardwood from a pallet - drilled a hole down the middle of the 4x4 (closer to 3x4) with a drill press and then cut it half. Wood is going to be pretty non marring on a barrel.
Hope this helps, sorry if it seems too rudimentary.
ETA - looks like Glockman and I were typing at the same time! 
LOL…thank you sir.
No such thing as too much information. I’ll take any and all advice. This thread was a downer for me because it highlighted my ignorance.
That being said I’m very glad I started it. Tons of useful stuff coming to light. Hopefully it’ll help someone else out.
When I set up my match rifles, I put Loctite on the threads and hand tighten the flash hider. Increased torque of the flash hider against the muzzle can effect accuracy, but we are talking about setting up a sub 3/4 MOA rifle. On a carbine I don’t like to torque the flash hider any more than 90 degrees when I install it and I use a peel washer to time it if a crush washer won’t index somewhere near 90 degrees from top dead center when I hand tighten it. On a rare occasion I have placed a crush washer in a vise and tightened it until it was thin it enough to time the flash hider, but in most cases it is not necessary.
It sounds like you torqued the flash hider roughly 150 degrees. You may or may not have distorted the muzzle crown, but you won’t know if you effected accuracy until you shoot it. If it shoots okay, I wouldn’t worry about it. Removing and reinstalling the flash hider won’t change anything if you over-torqued it. If the muzzle crown was effected you would have to recut it to bring accuracy back to an acceptable level.
When I set up my match rifles, I put Loctite on the threads and hand tighten the flash hider. Increased torque of the flash hider against the muzzle can effect accuracy, but we are talking about setting up a sub 3/4 MOA rifle. On a carbine I don’t like to torque the flash hider any more than 90 degrees when I install it and I use a peel washer to time it if a crush washer won’t index somewhere near 90 degrees from top dead center when I hand tighten it. On a rare occasion I have placed a crush washer in a vise and tightened it until it was thin it enough to time the flash hider, but in most cases it is not necessary.
It sounds like you torqued the flash hider roughly 150 degrees. You may or may not have distorted the muzzle crown, but you won’t know if you effected accuracy until you shoot it. If it shoots okay, I wouldn’t worry about it. Removing and reinstalling the flash hider won’t change anything if you over-torqued it. If the muzzle crown was effected you would have to recut it to bring accuracy back to an acceptable level.
Good to know, thanks!
I’m redoing it for several reasons already mentioned, not the least of which it’s not right. I like doing things correctly for piece of mind if nothing else. Plus I want to see if anything damage wise is visible, and go from there.
I’ll give Faxon a IM to see they can provide any insight to whether or not I’ve done any harm thus far.