I’ve wondered why more people are not proponents of carbines (small/short as is legal) firing pistol rnds for home defense.
It’s always seems to me they have many pros and few cons: longer sight radius, easy to handle, minimal recoil, increase velocity due to longer barrel/ability to use +p ammo, higher capacity (usually), less expensive ammo (which hopefully = more practice time…) with optics, lights, etc needed, are a few of the things that come to mind.
A carbine firing .45 ACP. 44mag, 10mm, from such a platform, seems a great option.
Am I missing something obvious why this is not a more common recommendation for say home defense?
while those are all good defensive rounds I think the general consensus is that if you are going to use a rifle then you might as well use one in a rifle round that will be even more effective. I do like pistol-caliber carbines though.
A pistol round out of a carbine is still a pistol round. I’ll stick with rifle round performance. My AK in 7.62x39 is cheaper to feed than .45 ACP. 44mag, 10mm, 5.45x39 is even cheaper.
I’m not being snide, so please dont take it that way, but…
Why does the ammo commonality “pro” still hold water? If you run out of ammo in a PCC, are you going to take the time to remove ammo from your pistol to feed your rifle?
Just because a pistol round may go faster, that isnt always a good thing. The question that should be posed is, “If the pistol round goes faster, is the bullet designed for that velocity?”. That said, most pistol rounds are going that much faster anyways, so what good did it do?
Besides saving money, and reducing performance, what is gained by going to a PCC. What is lost?
it’s overrated I will admit and it really only matters if the carbine and the pistol take the same mags. aside from that, fewer calibers to buy but most of us here have a bunch of different guns in the major calibers anyway. this seems more relevant to the situation posed in the CX4 carbine thread where someone wants a carbine but isn’t a gun nut like the rest of us with half our paychecks going to guns and accessories and ammo. if someone is only going to have a few guns just for defense and pest control and less for recreation then it makes more sense to have your pistol and your carbine in the same caliber and using the same mags.
It is the worst of both worlds.You have a pistol caliber (less effective in terminal performance when compared to rifle rounds) in a package about the same size as a carbine rifle. So if you need compact get a pistol, but if you want something carbine sized you might as well get a better performing round.
the RRA 9mm and 40 carbines I don’t get as much. it’s the same size and weight as any other ar15. as for the recoil, I couldn’t tell ya but I read an article about the 9mm RRA and that was the only argument FOR that made sense was that the 9mm had less flash, noise, and recoil.
Nothing wrong with them. A Kel-Tec Sub-2000/Beretta CX4 backed up by a pistol that takes the same mags it uses makes things idiot simple. Makes life easier by only needing to have 1 caliber around and 1 type of magazine. That said over-penetration is an issue. Of course touching off a 5.56 indoors will be worse that 9mm from a disorientation standpoint to the shooter. You can go back and forth. Putting holes in important parts of the threat is what counts. Whatever makes the shooter most comfortable and assures best performance. A .22LR in the eye socket beats a miss from a 12ga. any day of the week.
I feel as if I’m about to repeat everything I’ve said in the thread about the CX4 Storm carbines.
The ammo compatability is almost a retarded argument for a HD gun. An AR15 magazine holds 30 rounds. If you need 30 to solve a problem in your hallway, a fucking 9mm carbine with a 15rnd magazine isn’t going to help you for a shit. A HD shoot isn’t a volume of fire situation.
I don’t subscribe to the kool-aid of those that say compatability is important because of similar magazines and such, if you are only buying one gun etc etc. I seriously doubt, one that would consider a CX4 is ever going to dump that many .223 rounds if they even owned an AR15, that the cost/magazines would be an issue.
IMO, from a guy who is issued one, they don’t do anything for you. Well, maybe slightly better velocity, but at the ranges we’re talking about in HD, its not an issue. The only reason I would ever bother to take it out of the car is that it has a RDS and a flashlight mounted. Our pistols don’t. The policy is being reworked to allow personally owned AR15s. I won’t be checking the CX4 out of the bunker when that happens.
You can buy pistol mounted flashlights and red dots, if that’s your thing.
The big problem with using carbines in a home defense role is weapon take-a-ways. One that i’m sure no one practices for. A pistol is easier to manage in a fight.
Of course touching off a 5.56 indoors will be worse that 9mm from a disorientation standpoint to the shooter.
In a deadly force encounter you won’t even notice it.
If there were more reputable pistol caliber carbines readily available at a reasonable price I am sure we’d see more in use in a lot of different roles.
As it stands, rifle carbines make much more sense. More reliable, cheaper, readily available.
As others have said with pistol caliber pop guns you get less power, less range and you actually have more risk of over penetration inside a home. Too many cons no real pro’s= why bother.
Pat
Pistols are also hard to hit with understress and are less controllable. I don’t like pistol caiber carbines but they beat pistols. Until you can get a 5.56 carbine for patrol your better off with your Storm than your handgun. You can fire much faster with accuracy at any range with a long gun vs a handgun. The only exception to this is when you start to get into master class level USPSA shooters. I have done a lot of experiments with this using shooters of various skill using rifles and handguns in short range drills. As the range extends the long guns advantage magnifies.
You should not be using a handgun as a home defense weapon by choice. You should be using a long gun.
Pat
Some one else touche on this too. I know everyone is set up different but realistically my pistols are my go to guns at home. My long guns are locked in my safe and would take too long to retrieve. For me it is a Glock 22.
