Just trying to get an idea of what to look for.
The gun is irrelevant, the applicaion is what determines your optics needs.
What are you shooting at?
What distances will you need to maintain precision?
Will it be at unknown distances or at easily identified ranges?
What is your rifle’s precision caipability with your preferred load?
What kind of lighting condiditons will you be shooting in primarily? Worst case?
I can hit a barn at 500 with irons in daylight with minimal crosswind with no effort; hitting a 4" circle at unknown distance between 600 and 700 in fading light with an 8.7 mph 9:30 wind is a different story when it comes to optics needs.
The easy answer is a NF 2.5-10X, but that makes a lot of assumptions about your needs and skills.
All great things to consider. Guess I need to put a little more thought into this before I spend too much on something I don’t need. Thanks for the input!
The mission will drive the gear choice. Once your mission is ascertained, the gear choice sometimes becomes obvious.
I have an 18" LaRue upper SPR. I am currently using a Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x40 lr/t with illuminated TMR reticle and m1 target turrets (model 60010) on a LaRue mount. On that gun I also have a Leupold Deltapoint 3.5 moa (model 67435) on a Daniel Defense One O’Clock Offset Rail mounted on the right side near the receiver.
What is the highest power you would put on an 18.5"? I just feel like anything over 10 is a bit more than the rifle can even reach isn’t it? I’d like to do mostly unknown distance precision shooting.
Nearly all of my shooting is done at 3.5 power. But, there can be special occasions when dialing it up to 10 power may be warranted. Depending on the mission, however, keeping the scope at 10 power most of the time could unreasonably endanger the shooter as the field of view is restricted.
As most have commented, what’s your mission?
R.
rickp
Member
As most have commented, what’s your mission?
R,
For now, I don’t really have a mission as I haven’t done much distance shooting. I’d just like to take some long range/sniper courses to gain a better understanding of how everything comes together to achieve greater accuracy…and to understand why I pay so much for nice equipment haha. As I said earlier though, I mostly would like to do unknown distance shooting in the desert. Eventually, I might get into 3 gun, but for now I just want to learn how to use what I have. Thanks for the responses btw.
Given the amount of money quality gear costs the best thing would be to SERIOUSLY review F2S’ post and answer as many of those questions with as much detail as possible, even if it means putting off enjoying your rifle for a bit. Unless you’re independently wealthy and have a huge discretionary budget.
With that said, in my not so expert an opinion, practically I believe that something in the 2.5-8, 3-9 or 2.5-10 range coupled with some fom of short range back up is the upper limit if you would like a jack of all trades kind of gun. That magnification range allows for decent group shooting on a square range but also allows for field use where low power field of view is helpful. Add something in an offset and you have a gun capable of dealing with a threat from bad breath range to maximum effective range for the 556 round. A 1-4 or 1-6 would be more useful if youre more intent on just field or game use. While shooting for teeny groups is possible with a 1-4 the extra magnification is very to have. If you’re going to be sitting on a square range only shooting for groups 3-18, 4-16, 5-20 would work great, but you will sacrafice portability and practicality, even with some form of offset for closer distances. 1-8’s and 1-10’s are also an option but very little experience with them is available.
Good info all, thanks for commenting. I’ve been thinking about stocks as well. So far I’m stuck between a UBR stock or the PRS. Any thoughts?
If you are running a high magnification scope, I would use a PRS.
The adjustable cheek peice is very nice to get a perfectly consistent cheek weld.
With my Vltor IMOD, and the UBR and CTR I used to have, I get an ok cheek weld. If it were a little higher, I could have the weight of my head resting perfectly on the stock, and have to put no effort into holding it there.
I tried out a Larue RISR, but I had to force my head down slightly to use the scope. Couldn’t use KAC micro BUIS with the RISR at all.
I think it was F2S who had a Premeir 1-8x and later sold it. One of the reasons, and spot on in my experiance, is that he didn’t shoot better with the extra magnification, and the 1-8s are all very bulky and heavy, more so obviously than the 1-4s.
More magnification doesn’t equal tighter groups. To some degree, and I’ve noticed myself doing this, is one starts to chase the reticle on high magnification scopes. You’ll center the reticle, then if it drifts right, you muscle it left etc. These slight movements still happen with lower power scopes, but you don’t notice it as much, and don’t end up chasing the reticle.
For paper punching, nice little mouse holes, I shoot at 100 yards and in. Past that, its steel targets. I’m not shooting for groups there. FOr this, I find a 1-4x is ideal as its very generous in eye box, and makes a good trade off as to weight.
I put the whole gun and optic together to perform a specific task. I wouldn’t put a large variable on a 14.5" gun and I wouldn’t put an RDS as a primary optic on a 18 or 20 inch gun.
What I have found to be the ideal setups FOR ME goes like this:
16" or less = RDS
16" = 1-4X or 2-7X (obviously other combos out there in that range)
18"= larger variable like 3-9X, 4-12X, ect.
RE more magnification causing you to chase the bullseye yes that is a possibility but if you’re muscling the gun on target your rest is not steady enough and you have too much contact with the gun. Watch some benchrest videos on youtube to get an idea of technique and notice how little contact they have on the gun. Once I got good at using bags and bought a rest I did a lot better and much of the ‘chasing’ or ‘muscling’ aspect went away. Regardless I don’t really like shooting groups that much except for load testing, and that doesn’t comprise much of my shooting. I love 250-750 yard steel shooting and Id go to 1k with a better LR gun.
The reason being for matching the barrel size to the optic FOR ME is a variety of factors like overall size, weight, application, barrel choice (SS/4150/CHF/ECT), balance, and probably a ton of minute things you don’t really even think of.
So its wise to start off with the right gun specs for what you want to do with the gun. I think the best GP setup is a 16" SS barrel with 12" rail and 1-4X type optic. Ive shot this type of setup quite a bit from CQB to 500 yards and used the 1-4X optic on a 308 out to 750 quite a bit also. The magnification is fine for hitting torso size targets but id probably want something a little more powerful for varmint hunting where I might only get a head or shoulders and up squirrel body to shoot at 300 yards. At the same time I would not want a big 18 or 20 inch gun for ‘walking the woods’ due to the weight and scope choice Id find ideal for that gun.
My HD gun will definitively have an RDS as inside the house distances are what it would be used for. You can use an RDS further out as well but it gets tricky past about 250 yards for most loads where the bullet starts falling quickly enough you start messing with hold overs Kentucky windage style, and I don’t like having to do that. Id much rather spin an elevation turret on a 1-4X and have a much more precise aiming point at 250 and beyond.
Of course there are many ways to skin a cat but this is what makes the most sense to me with optics to gun combinations. You may or may not always have a choice in what ends up in your hands, and have to make due with what you have (happens a lot in the mil and LE world). If you’re a civie you can experiment as much as your budget and time allows, find out what works for you, what certain equipment can do, and even then your opinions on things will change as you gain knowledge, new products come out, and new methods are handed down.
I know Horus reticles are a love/hate kind of thing but I think they’re a great match for an SPR type weapon. One of the strengths of the rifle you described is that you can spot for yourself and make fast followup shots. The Horus allows you to do that very well without dialing. Leupold makes a 4.5-15 with an H-27 that would work great for an 18" SPR.
Like someone else posted above, 16in 1-4, 1.5-5, 1-6. 18in 3-9, 2.5-10, 3.5-10, 4.5-14
Thanks for all the info gents, I’ve got a much better idea of what to look for now 