Old Medic Pack

Preparation, Preparedness & Prevention Emergency First-Aid
1

I know this thing is old school and I was about to move its contents to a spare backpack that’s built similar to an Army medium sized ruck, just smaller and chunk this. But then I got to thinking about all the individual pouches that I’m going to lose because no one makes a packs that are this well organized. At least not for less than $200… Albeit ancient looking.
So my question is this.

  1. Should I break like items up in ziplock bags (I have some huge ones) and move my “combat lifesaver” supplies to a pack easier to carry around? (I have several spare packs)
  2. Does anyone have a load plan they could share? I tried some old TM’s but no luck. I’m good on my trauma kits on my chest rigs. Docsherm provided me a list of trauma items and I stick to that. But this is like a spare first aid bag plus.
    Not just GSW or other trauma. I have stuff to replen my chest rigs ifaks like spare ACE bandages, spare moleskin, plastic tape etc. but I also have different size bandages. Think Army first aid kit in the green plastic box + stuff you’d find in your medicine cabinet at home. Acetaminophen, cold medicine, antibiotic ointments, water treatment, alcohol pads, epipens (not for me) soap, space blankets EMT shears, hydration tabs, scent free cream for sore muscles… So you can see it’s not my typical ifak/trauma kit. But it’s not meant to be. So I was thinking I could bounce my load plan off what was supposed to be in here just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. I do need to get some new splints. The kind you roll up. Or is there a list of items for this type of scenario?

The idea here was to have a med kit that I could grab-n-go without having to empty drawers or go through the cabinets should we need to leave the house sooner than later.

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2

First, organization is key with an aid bag. Everything has its place, and not without its space.

Second, for general purpose use, most people are best suited to keeping aid bags simple, contents within their scope of training, and having items that can fill multiple roles.

IE A SAM splint can be a splint, a pelvic binder, a cervical collar, and can be stored as a protective lining in a pouch. A Nalgene bottle can be used as a junctional TQ. Etc.

I shot you a PM, and will gather my thoughts on this tonight or tomorrow and post something.

3

Fantastic - thanks GTF!

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4

Staying within your certification is essential. Don’t carry stuff that you have no training on. Keeping stuff simple is crucial as you are going to stabilize and evacuate to a location where a trauma surgeon is available. To this day we have medics in the field trying to play God when a basic EMT produces a better outcome by simply stabilizing the patient and load n go to the trauma center.

FWIW, your kit looks better than a lot of bags that I see on engine companies.

5

I still work with Active Duty guys. I will be sure and ask for their load plan as soon as I see one of them in the Motor Pool.

6

I’m gonna tackle this as best as I can, and try to keep it neat and to the point. Medicine, like everything, has differing opinions. Your needs may be slightly out of line with what I’m thinking, as I’m approaching this with the mentality of a “BLS Only Jump Bag”.

Go for it. Sew velcro inside the ruck if need be and either drop the coin on inserts, or home brew them with old BDUs. Cut them up, sew them into 6x6 pouches, and sew some velcro on. Depends on how arts and crafty you want to get.

If you keep it, your bag is fine for this role.

Yes. I keep a small aid bag in my Jeep that was the top pouch from an Eberlestock ruck. It’s built to manage MARCH-PAWS for one critical/two priority patients with a pocket BVM tossed in.

Most pre-hospital emergencies are medical complications vs trauma. The good news is that there’s about **** all you can do for most medical in the pre-hospital environment, and trauma is fairly straight forward.

I’m writing out a packing list now. I’ll edit this eventually and post what I carry, and what I recommend and why.

36" SAM splints are a God send. Get at least 2 of them.

This is gonna be pretty tough, because we can “what if” all day. I’ll try to make an easy to carry, easy to use packing list that will cover the basics, but the crux is going to be portability.

7

Thanks Krazy. It’s pretty basic. I try to stay in my lane. Especially with things that could cause more harm than good. So I pack the stuff I know I can use. I’ve been first on scene at some pretty horrible accidents and quickly figured out what I can and cannot do. Wait. I meant as a a soldier driving down the road, or as a civilian rolling up in a bad car wrecks or motorcycle wrecks. I am by no means an EMT guy.

Thanks AM. I appreciate it. I think GTF is going to get me squared up.

8

Shot you a PM.

9

For public consumption:

Older Ranger Medic Handbook. A big book of “Not My Scope” for most, but fantastic reference material if you know what this is. I have the newest edition as a textbook, and the non-ALS material is pretty much the same.

http://www.patriotresistance.com/Ranger_Medic_Handbook_2007_1_.pdf

Get these:

Tactical Combat Casualty Care: Lessons and Best Practices https://www.amazon.com/dp/1502430614/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_9teezbNE46Q0F

Wilderness First Responder: How To Recognize, Treat, And Prevent Emergencies In The Backcountry https://www.amazon.com/dp/0762754567/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_VueezbQFJ4PM4

None of this replaces quality training. Get into a CPR/First Aid class, and if you’re seriously looking for “tactical” medicine, most TECC classes don’t require EMS creds or previous EMT training.

10

First, that’s a great bag. It’s the old M5, which was a classic. We used them, and you can still find them in the field here and there.

Second, regarding load-outs and organization, if you can find a copy of the Special Operations Medical Handbook, they have a section with some suggested load-outs. If I recall, they are ALICE-centric; at the time, Pararescue carried a full ALICE with a medical load. I have a handbook somewhere I was issued, I will see if I can find it and get the load-out contents and organization.

While the old mantra “two is one, one is none” rings true, there are areas of overkill. The caveat being if you plan on this being a mounted bag (i.e., you don’t carry it but instead grab stuff out of it), then weight is not as important.

You don’t need BVMs, cervical collars, any of that stuff. A mouth-facemask, sure, a BVM, no. KISS reigns supreme. Remember, stuff has expiration dates and can be heat-sensitive, so rotate stock, ESPECIALLY meds.

The old Army green plastic boxes are great for breakables, gallon-size zip-locks are great for other stuff.

You have snivel gear in your list (cream for sore muscles, etc). Separate all the snivel gear into a totally different section.

Remember, you are not gearing up to fix anything. You can’t fix anything in the field, all you can do is mitigate and prolong a status quo until definitive treatment.

Did I say what a great bag that is? I’d love to have another.

11

This makes sense, but I am thinking abour carrying an ARS for needle decompression even though I do not currently have training in how to use one. I figure I may be the person with the kit but there may also be someone (a doc, a nurse, a cop, an EMT, etc) who does know how to use one but doesn’t have a kit of their own.

12

Link for the “Special Operations Forces Medical Handbook”, Second Edition 2008, from the US Government Publishing Office Bookstore:

https://bookstore.gpo.gov/products/sku/008-070-00810-6

Ebook version $9.99; Printed on tear-resistant, water-resistant, synthetic paper. A 5.25 inch by 8.5 inch quick-reference guide with a three hole punched ring binding, $59.00.

13

Carrying equipment that may be useful to an individual with a higher level of training is fine as long as it is not excessively cumbersome for you to carry. Some stuff can be utilized for various techniques. Needle decompression can be performed with a 14 ga catheter/Needle as long as the patient’s chest is not too thick. That same type of needle can also be used for IV access to provide a fluid bolus.

14

Thanks Chuckman. I’ll keep my eye out for one of those bags. I’m still close to Hood, so it’s not usual to see older gear and kit. If I see one in good shape, I’ll grab it for you.

Thanks for the advice. This bag’s main purpose is a) resupply the ifaks in my chest rigs. b) bulky items, and c) items I may need, but will not carry in my chest rig ifak. My ifak is pretty standard trauma stuff: moleskin, ace bandage, plastic tape, quikclot gauze, TQ, shears, roll of gauze, npa, gloves, acetaminophen, antibacterial cream. I keep stuff like imodium and spare wound seal in my GP pouch, and TQ’s in various locations, on ammo pouches, X harness shoulder strap opposite comms, easy to grab. I’m working on a spreadsheet with meds and expiration dates that i printed out and use that for rotating stock, although I have read many times that meds generally last longer than the expiration dates although it can lose some potency. So like my antibiotics, I generally keep them after expiration, I just keep them dark and cool, fairly stable temp. environment.

Right now the bag is in my shop, where it is climate controlled. Partly because I’m still working on it, but also because I keep a couple of ifak type kits in my truck, that can be used to treat, or resupply item I keep in my truck like mentioned earlier. Since I don’t lug it around weight isn’t an issue.

I found this book on Amazon. It has the same title you mentioned and is 722 pages. Is this the one you are referring to? It doesn’t look like an FM to me, but you may not be referencing a FM.

Special Operations Forces Medical Handbook

Then they have this one. Looks like a 2nd edition.

Special Operations Forces Medical Handbook 2nd Edition

Are either of these the right book?

GTF suggested a couple of good books and I picked those up. This books looks pretty through in the situations it covers.

Thanks again for the suggestions and advice.

15

Yeah, thanks, that would be awesome.

mike_f referenced the manual: https://bookstore.gpo.gov/products/sku/008-070-00810-6

I don’t know about the electronic book, but the looseleaf with binder is what I have floating around. Great reference, waterproof, lots of algorithms and neat stuff you will never need to know about (i.e., treating HACE with Diamox, etc).

It’s not a FM.

16

You want a green nylon one?

17

post in error

18

@RobertTheTexan,

I found a content list for the M5 from one of my med references. It is by-and-large the load-out I had, but in a different bag. Of course, a buttload of these things are beyond most scopes of practice for non-military, non-paramedic use, but you can certainly add/delete:

Airway/Breathing Management

  1. Airway, oropharyngeal cuffed 2 ea
  2. Airway, nasopharyngeal 1 ea
  3. Airway, oropharyngeal, lg 1 ea
  4. Airway, oropharyngeal, med 1 ea
  5. Ambu-bag, adult 1 ea
  6. Asherman Device 2 ea
  7. CO2 Detector, colometric, inline 1 ea
  8. Endotracheal Tube, 7 Fr 1 ea
  9. Endotracheal Tube, 8 Fr 1 ea
  10. Bougie, intubation stylet 1 ea
  11. Gauze, Vaseline 4 ea
  12. Heimlich Valve 1 ea
  13. Laryngoscope blade, Macintosh, #4 1 ea
  14. Laryngoscope blade, Miller, #3 1 ea
  15. Laryngoscope Handle, pediatric 1 ea
  16. Pocket Mask 1 ea
  17. Stop Cock, 3 way 2 ea
  18. Syringe, 50-60cc (for suction) 1 ea
  19. Thoracotomy tube, 36 fr. 2 ea
  20. Tracheostomy Tube, Cuffless 1 ea
  21. Tracheostomy Tube, Cuffed 2 ea
  22. Tracheostomy Tube, Inducer 1 ea

Rapid Sequence Intubation Drugs
23. Atropine 1 vl
24. Etomidate 1 vl
25. Fentanyl, 0.05mg/ml 1 vl
26. Lidocaine, 1% 1 vl
27. Scopolamine 1 vl
28. Succinylcholine 1 vl
29. Valium 1 vl
30. Vecuronium 1 vl
31. Versed 1 vl

Circulation Management
32. Bandage, Dyna-Flex, Cohesive Compression 2" x 5 yd 1 ea
33. Bandage, Muslin 8 ea
34. Blade, surgical, #10 4 ea
35. Blade, surgical, #11 2 ea
36. Blade, surgical, #15 2ea
37. Blade with handle, #10 4ea
38. Bone Gun, 6515-01-457-1339 1 ea
39. Cardiac Needle, 16ga, 6 in 1 ea
40. Catheter, 14ga 2 ea
41. Catheter, 16ga 4 ea
42. Catheter, 18ga 6 ea
43. Central Venous Cath Kit sgl lumen 2 ea
44. Drain, Penrose, 1", sterile 3 ea
45. Dressing, Burn 2 ea
46. Dressing, Crinkle Fluff 6 ea
47. Dressing, Field 11 3/4" x 11 3/4" 2 ea
48. Dressing, Field 4" x 7" 8 ea
49. Dressing, Field 7 1/2" x 8" 2 ea
50. Hespan, 500cc 4 ea
51. Infusion Set, IV 10gtts/ml 4 ea
52. Pads, Nonadherent, 4" x 4" 5 ea
53. Syringe disposable 10cc 4 ea
54. Tape, adhesive 2” 2 ea
55. Tape, microfoam, 3" 1 ea
56. Tape, nylon 1" 2 ea
57. Tegaderm 2-3/8in x 2-3/4in 4 ea
58. Tourniquet, Kwik 1 ea
59. Tourniquet, one-handed 4 ea
60. Wrap, Ace 4” 2 ea

Disability/Exposure/Vitals Asses/Mgt
61. Oto/Ophthalmoscope set 1 ea
62. Pulse Oximeter, finger 1 ea
63. Scissors Bandage 1 pr
64. Sphygmomanometer 1 ea
65. Stethoscope 1 ea
66. Thermometer, Oral 1 ea
67. Thermometer, Rectal 1 ea

Surgery
68. Case Medical Inst & Supply Set, complete w/instruments 1 ea
69. Gauze Sponge, 2" x 2" 10 ea
70. Gauze Sponge, 4" x 4" 10 ea
71. Gloves, sterile 2 pr
72. Marcaine, 0.5%, 50ml 1 vl
73. Pads, Alcohol 10 ea
74. Provodone Iodine Swab, 3/pk 3 pk
75. Sponge w/Brush, Surgical, Betadine 1 ea
76. Steri-strips, 1/2" 2 pk
77. Suture Prolene, 3-0 2 pk
78. Suture Prolene, 4-0 2 pk
79. Suture Silk, size 0 w/o needle 2 pk
80. Suture, Silk-0 on Keith needle 2 pk
81. Suture Vicryl, 3-0 2 pk
82. Suture Vicryl, 4-0 2 pk

Emergency Medications
83. Albuterol Inhaler 1 ea
84. Benadryl, 50mg/ml, 1ml vial 2 ea
85. Diazepam, 5mg/5ml 2 vl
86. Epinephrine, 1:1000, 10ml 1 vl
87. Fentanyl lollypops, 800mcg 4 ea
88. Fentanyl 250mcg/5ml 4 ea
89. Morphine Sulfate, 15mg/ml, 30ml 1 bt
90. Narcan, 0.4mg/ml, 1ml vial 4 ea
91. Nitroglycerin tablets, 0.4mcg 1 bt
92. Zofran, 4mg/5ml 6 vl

Antibiotics/Antifungals
93. Aspirin 81mg 10 ea
94. Augmentin XR tab 20 ea
95. Azithromycin 250mg tab 40 ea
96. Doxycycline, 100mg capsules 40 ea
97. Fluconazole, 150 mg tab 12 ea
98. Metronidazole 500mg tab 40 ea
99. Rocephin, 1gm Powder 1 ea
100. Levaquin 750mg tablets 20 ea
101. Zosyn, 3.375 gm, powder 1 vl
102. Erythromycin Ophth Oint 0.5% 2 ea

General Medications
103. Afrin Nose Spray 1 ea
104. Zyrtec, 10mg tab 100 ea
105. Ambien 10mg 200 ea
106. Bags, drug dispensing 12 ea
107. Benadryl 25mg tab 25 ea
108. Imodium, 2mg capsules 24 ea
109. Celebrex, 200mg tab 100 ea
110. Mupirocin ointment, 15gm 1 tube
111. Nature’s Tears 4 ea
112. Prednisone 50mg tab 40 ea
113. Psuedoguest, 60mg tab 50 ea
114. Tessalon Perles 30 ea
115. Transderm Scop 1.5 mg patch 8 ea
116. Triamcinalone cream, 15 gm 1 tb
117. Tylox, 5/500mg tab 20 ea
118. Tylenol, 500mg tab 50 ea
119. Valium, 10mg tab 20 ea
120. Zantac, 150mg tablets 50 ea
121. Zofran, 8mg tab 24 ea
122. Zyrtec, 10mg tablets 50 ea

Miscellaneous Items
123. Special Operations Forces Medical Handbook (Teton Publishing) 1 ea
124. Bandage elastic, 4” x 4.5 yds 2 ea
125. Band-Aids 3/4” x 3” 10 ea
126. Batteries, as needed 6 ea
127. Blade, tongue 5 ea
128. Easy Suction 1 ea
129. Eye patch kit 1 ea
130. Field Medical Cards 1 book
131. Gloves, exam 6 pr
132. Kendrick Traction device 1 set
133. Lip Light, for Kevlar chin strap 1 ea
134. Moleskin, 20” square 1 ea
135. Otter Box, medium, for med vials 2 ea
136. Pen Light, White 1 ea
137. Petzel Head Lamp 1 ea
138. Phantom Warrior, Medic Flashlight 1 ea
139. Safety Night Stick, various colors 2 ea
140. Snake bite kit, Sawyer, “Extractor” 1 ea
141. Splint, flexible, “Sam” 2 ea
142. Surgi-lube, 5 gm packet 4 ea
143. Swab, Benzoin Tincture 4 pk
144. 18 ga 1-1/2in needle 4 ea
145. 21 ga 1-1/4in needle 4 ea
146. 22 ga 1 in needle 4 ea
147. 27 ga 1-1/2in needle 4 ea

**Note: This list is a general packing list for an M5 Medical Aid Bag. These suggestions should be adapted to the specific situation anticipated.

19

Thanks for taking the time to post that, chuckman.

20

Surprised that there is no glucagon or d50. Other than that, nice list.