Easiest way to do it is to find a Class III dealer. They can handle the actual transfer, paperwork, local restrictions (if any), etc.
So far as a step by step, this is where I would start. They can guide you from their.
The entire process basically is this:
Find a local (in state) C3 dealer.
Make sure they can obtain the item or transfer it (if you buy it directly).
Pay for the item and have it transferred to the dealer.
Fill out the forms. Again the dealer will be invaluable in this. Get fingerprint card, local background check, and CLEO (usually the Chief of Police or County Sheriff) signature.
Pay the ATF for the transfer.
Wait. Right now (and especially for a first timer) it will be a bit longer than usual.
Take receipt of the item when the paperwork arrives.
Repeat.
Now the above assumes that you aren’t set up as a trust. If you are set up as a trust then you bypass the local stuff. You’ll still need the fingerprint card for the FBI (national) background check.
Also, the above assumes that you are buying from an out of state dealer or individual. In state you could do yourself, but honestly I wouldn’t want to navigate the system, especially for the first time. But that’s just me. I’d rather pay a dealer a fair price (mine charges $50) to absorb the headaches, crossed
"t"s and dotted "i"s.
Guys, if I’m wrong on any of this, please, please correct it.
Because the method of going through a Trust cannot be stressed enough, here are my instructions…
Step 1: Purchase “Quicken Willmaker” off Ebay for $20
Step 2: Laugh hysterically at all the people willing to get fingerprinted & photographed like a criminal while begging permission of yet another fuckheaded authority figure while on your way to the bank to get your shiny new Revocable Living Trust Notarized for $1.
(Note, it may help to remind ignorant Bank employee that they’re only notarizing the fact that it is indeed yourself that’s signing the Trust, not to go over that it’s a valid document)
You laughin’ at me? You laughin’ at me? You laughin’ at me? Then who the hell else are you laughin’ at? You laughin’ at me? Well I’m the only one here. Who the #$$* do you think you’re laughin’ at?
To mangle a line from the movie…
Don’t you still have to have a national (FBI) background check, fingerprints and photos to get the tax stamp. Or is it all different because you are not you, but you are a trust? You still have to pay the money to ATF, right? You’ll still have to pay the dealer his fees, right?
It seems to me that if there are no fingerprints, background check, etc. then anyone could get a NFA weapon. Illegal alien, felon, child, insane person, etc. Come on the government isn’t that stupid.
Ah, don’t answer that… :eek:
The only incorrect thing I see is the fingerprinting requirement of an individual going the TRUST route.
An entity such as a trust, corp, partnership does not have fingerprints or a social security # and therefore there isn’t a requirement for the card or photo when going this route.
Yes an individual, officer, trustee, etc…fills out the compliance form and signs in a place or two on the form 4 , but that is only on behalf of the legal entity.
As to the other post referencing anyone getting an NFA item by going the trsut route, I believe most who go the trust /corp/ partnership route list socials and SS #'s of the primary grantor/trustees/officers/ so that checks can be run and you aren’t holding up your app.
Thanks Geezer for clearing that up. I’ve never done the Trust route, so I was flying a bit in the dark on that. Figured that the person(s) responsible for the Trust would have to identify themselves and have a background check done. Of course now I’m wondering what would happen if no SS# or any manner of ID of the primary officer were offered/submitted. Would ATF still sign off on it? Seems like a big loop-hole if they would.
Still for a first timer, IMO, he would be better off going the traditional route. Maybe I’m a bit spoiled living where I do. In this area, for the most part, LE is not obstructive of ownership of NFA.
Just thought of something else. I always carry a copy of my form and tax stamp with the weapon to the range just in case. Now since there would not be a picture on the form by going the Trust method, if ATF just happened to question it, would you have to also carry/produce (your papers please) proof of ownership of the Trust and thereby proof of legally owning the NFA item? Just a random thought…
When going through a trust, you’re not required to submit photographs, fingerprints, or ask/inform an additional authority figure of your intent to possess something that they may or may not want you to possess.
(Can you tell I have a problem with authority?)
As for the FBI background check, theoretically, they might run it off the name & address submitted (the “MisterWilson Family Revocable Living Trust” located at 1234 My address lane, etc etc, but I think that they may pass on that as well. (As it should be).
An additional perk is that I’ve heard that it’s a few weeks faster when going through a trust as opposed to doing it in your name.
As far as any concerns with authorities asking to see your stamp, I honestly have no worries and do not see jumping through all those fucking hoops (photos, prints, etc) as a reasonable benefit in that situation. F that noise. Trust is king.
ETA: You still have to pay the $200 bribe/tax for the king’s permission and wait in line for weeks & months but overall it’s a MUCH better process than the alternative. Again, jumping through more hoops than necessarily is for suckers. (Present members excluded)
I guess with a good many trusts they may be set up as Mr. Husband and Mrs. Wife Revocable living trust and either could just have the form 4 and an ID with them to pass serious scrutiny.
With other entitys say, XYZ coporation of which you are the CFO and listed as an officer with the articles of incorporation?, which corp XYZ provided to ATF for the NFA item, I guess you just say “I’m so and so and here’s our form 4 and I’m the CFO”
If you show em your stuff and it’s local LE and there are no state prohibitions against suppressors, BS’s or SBR’s and they take issue, they can go pound sand.
Regarding the Trust, are there requirements regarding a legitimate legal address? Couldn’t someone list a private mail box or PO Box? What I’m getting at is what would stop someone who otherwise could not legally own a NFA (i.e. felon, minor, illegal alien) set up a Trust and take possession of it? Just seems like a big loop hole to me. Of course my question could be a big oxymoron. If someone’s going to do it by “illegal” means, they wouldn’t be too concerned about getting it registered, now would they?
Regarding being asked for the paperwork by an ATF agent, I’ve heard it’s happened. Urban legend perhaps, but I’ve read and heard that you are required to have the paperwork available, and in your possession when you’re at a range.
Does the Trust extend to all NFA items including DD’s? Do you have to engrave your Trust’s name on the the item (as you would if you are the “maker” of a SBR? Or if it’s factory produced (i.e. M203, Colt LE6933) it’s already marked properly?
I suppose you could use a private mailbox or PO box.
As for what would stop someone with the intent of breaking the law from doing so, not much I suppose. Other than why would they want to abide by this one?
I’ve never had someone ask for my SBR’s paperwork and I’ve known several manufacturer’s with many M16s & other MG’s who’ve NEVER had someone ask about their paperwork.
Trusts extend to anything that needs to be transfered via this pain-in-the-ass process.
If you “manufacture” (Form 1) an NFA device, you need to engrave your information upon it. If you’re transferring an existing NFA device (Form 4?) then you don’t need to since you’re not “manufacturing” it.
This might be the most helpful thread I’ve seen on the topic.
The confusion about NFA purchases had me a case of the heebie-jeebies. This has dispelled some of the more prominent myths I’ve heard, and helped me get my head around the process itself.
Thanks to all of you for givin’ the rookie a heads up.
Haha, and by having an NFA toy, you don’t give up your right to privacy for JBTs to come and ruffle your feathers anytime they wish either. Furthermore, I doubt that we’re on any more lists and we’re on already.
The best part of all of it is getting to educate others on the legality of such toys.
If you polled 100 gun owners on one simple question, “Are suppressors in any way legal for civilian ownership”, how many could answer correctly?
How do you handle having a trust when you’re planning to move to another NFA friendly state? How long does the trust process take before you can order and receive your suppressor/SBR?
Please excuse my ignorance and I apologize if I’m asking something that has already been answered.
I don’t really think that there’s anything involved with moving a trust. I think moving an NFA toy requires notifying the ATF, but nothing for the trust. I think.
Making a trust takes 15 minutes on the computer, 5 minutes driving to the bank, and 20 minutes watching a bank teller scratching their head at notarizing a paper they’ve never seen before. Bada Bing you’ve got your trust and can mail off your paperwork.
From there however, it’s up to the ATF. My SBR only took ~ 2 months but I’ve heard that they’ve been backed up like a line of section 8 diabetics at a Chinese buffet, six months maybe?
Not sure about the moving part but my guess is that yoiu just fill ou that form for the BATFE whizkids and notify them that you are moving. As far as the time here is my experience.
I purchased an AAC M4-2000 OOA 24 OCT 2008. Item was in stock at the dealer. I did it via a trust and they did all the paperwork for me. I was then given the whole packet to get notarized and sent off. I mailed my stuff out on 27 OCT 08 and haven’t received my stamp as of yet. But, it has only been just under 60 days.
It is my understanding that I am looking at about a 75 day process. Since there is no background check/ FBI/ photo shit to worry about this obviously speeds up the process. As soon as my “permission slip” arrives I will post the info here. I also have not received a call or a letter so I assume that there have been no issues thus far.
