I am not new to firearms or reloading, I shoot often mostly pistol and sometimes rifle and already reload for .223. I have been wanting to try a AR-15 for awhile and I have an idea what I want the AR for. My budget around $1000. Here is a list of what I want for sure:
5.56 chamber
1/7 Twist (50-80 grain bullets)
A4 (Collapsible Stock)
Folding sights
Must shoot 1" or less MOA
Intended use: range use, home defense, hunting.
I don’t have a lot of time on my hands so buying a complete rifle is preferred.
Building a rifle would be a good learning experience so I am open to it.
Thanks for any advice, I live near Flint Michigan so if there are any gun shops who specialize in AR in the SE Michigan area please let me know.
It depends, if you’re looking for a mid-length gas system I’d go with BCM. You can definately get one for your price range and they are a top-tier weapon. I think Grant from G&R Tactical might still have complete BCM’s available. Check out the thread below:
For a carbine-length gas system I’d go with Colt, like a 6920 for example. BCM makes carbine-length rifles as well which are also top notch. You could definately get an upper and a lower and put them together for $1000. Hope this helps.
ETA: Folding sights are something you’re probably gonna have to get on your own. I know Grant offers package deals sometimes where you can add/subtract certain stuff to/from the rifle during the ordering process. I don’t want to put words in his mouth so check his site and see what he has to offer. If you have to get them on your own I would recommend Troy folding battle sights.
Just my 2 cents, but if one of your uses will be defense, then you want it build right from the get-go. If you have little experience, then I’d leave it to the pros. At least for now.
As DaBears said, Colt and BCM are definitely on the short list, and around your price range.
That’s true, I’m a big fan of their lowers with the flared magwell. Their pencil barrels are also pretty nifty. You should add Daniel Defense to your list as well. They’re definately something you should check out if you visit Grant’s website.
Yes I looked at the chart, it was very helpful. I was going to look at a Stag Arms until I saw the chart.
Accuracy is very important to me, I plan to replace my .223 savage bolt action, it is a sport grade rifle not a target gun, I have shot some 1/2" groups, it usually shots under an inch MOA.
Do most quality AR’s shot an inch or so MOA, or am I asking to much from the AR platform?
It’s subjective to the shooter behind the trigger but yes it’s definately capable of meeting your requirements.
I’d stay away from Stag. Colt, BMC, Daniel Defense, LMT are your best bets. Anything towards the left of the chart. It’s gonna take some research on your part but the end product will be worth it. Pay once or pay twice.
Since you are looking for accuracy, have you looked into stainless barrels? BCM has some nice ones. Keep in mind the SS barrels will be a bit heavier as well.
Check out their upper receiver groups. You can get them in many different configurations. Than, once you find an upper you like, get a complete lower and mate the two together. That’s it. Two pins hold the upper to the lower. That way, you can mold the gun to your liking.
Either go through BCM or G&R. Grant can help you out with your selection and make it easy for you.
Exactly, he can make this selection process so much easier for you. He’ll definately take care of you without any BS, it’s very refreshing. I believe he’s still offering a discount for M4C members…?
I am going to be buying a BCM as my first AR, have yet to really decide on which one but I am set on a BCM, if Grant gets the right one, then I will just buy from him since I can set it up with the rails and such that I want and not have to worry about that when I get it.
For your budget, your accuracy demands are most likely not attainable. The accuracy requirement for a military grade carbine is something on the order of 3 moa or less so you will not be happy with most mil-spec rifles. Very few ARs will be able to meet your requirement without a SS match grade barrel, trigger work, and more cash.
I can only think of one manufacturer that makes a 1moa accuracy claim with his hammer forged, chrome lined barrels, but you will be paying a lot more than a grand to do so. You may want to re-think your budget or your intended use of the rifle. I’d stick to the bolt gun for your bench shooting needs and go with an AR for defense/reloading fun if I were you. Perhaps you should drop the notion of owning an AR for a while until you can increase your budget.
That is true, but they are also basing that on military grade ammo. and even then better is often attainable. I surprised the hell out of myself one day shooting Wolf 75 grain into a group just slightly over 1/2" at 50 yards from a standard BCM upper with a 3-9x optic.
Like most things, I think that what you get by paying more for better quality accuracy-focused barrels is that you are not relying on getting a fluke (like I may have) but you are also getting a barrel that is potentially capable of even better accuracy than what the OP is asking for.
My bet would be that, if he spends the time at the press, he could come up with a load that would meet, or very nearly meet, his accuracy requirement from many barrels.
All of that said I do think that the OP would be better off either lowering the accuracy expectations or raising the budget a bit, in order to have a greater degree of certainty that his needs are being met. Something like the Noveske N4 would appear to be the best fit for his needs in all but the budget.
I can wait awhile and increase my budget, what price range will a rifle with 1" MOA or less cost?
I have had heavy barrel target rifles that would not shoot in 1" MOA, so a heavy barrel doesn’t always mean accuracy. If I spend more I would want to be sure I was buying an accurate rifle, are some rifles guaranteed to shoot under 1" MOA?
It sounds to me like you’re leaning much more heavily towards accuracy than anything else. You mention a 1/2" bolt gun, for example. It sounds like you’re looking for a bench-rest gun that you could press into service for defensive purposes if need be, but that the overwhelming majority of your shooting will be slow-fire, accuracy-based.
It is not that you are asking too much from the platform, it’s that you’re asking a lot of any semi-auto rifle given your other constraints. Could you elaborate a bit more on how you intend to use the gun? Are you going to be doing action shooting competitions, high round-count training classes, etc.? Or are you going to be at the bench or prone, off a rest or bipod, shooting slow-fire for the tightest groups you can get? The former are the applications where the AR platform really shines in civilian hands. While they can be made to shoot very, very accurately you will need to either adjust your budget to get the other functionality you mention or stick with your budget and focus on the static shooting.
I do think you can get 1" out of most better-quality ARs, especially of the hammer-forged barrel variety, but I’m not sure if that’s what you really want or not. If it is, my suggestion would be to start with this, either the full rifle for $1500 or the upper only for under $900 and assemble your own lower.
The use of the AR would be some range out to 200 yards, so 1" groups to 1 1/2" groups would be acceptable. I would shot mostly at 15 yard to 50 yards self-defense practice.
If I could find a rifle course in my area I would like the training. I don’t see any competition shooting for me.
List of priorities for the AR.
Self-defense for the home
Range practice
100-200 yard accuracy
I would not be happy with 3" MOA groups and would feel I had wasted my money. I had a Ruger Ranch Rifle and it would not shoot under 2.5 MOA so I sold it.
For bench shooting I would reload and that should help to find the load the particular gun likes. I find most guns like a bullet weight and that is most important to accuracy.
Thanks Rob S. for the link for the Noveske N4 I will check out their line of guns. Your help is appreciated.
centurion arms might have some barrels that meet your requirements. They can assemble an upper receiver for you that will rival Noveske in price and accuracy. http://centurionarms.com/