Compared to most here I’m a newb. I’ve got about 300 rounds on this Spikes upper. I can’t figure out how to post pics as I’m using my phone here so you’ll have to take my word on things that it is properly staked.
Last night I noticed some play though in the carier key. I don’t know how to measure the amount of play to give you an exact idea of the amount, all I can say is it is tiny. So my newb question is this normal at all ? It seems like the screws weren’t tightened all the way before it was staked. I don’t see the screws being able to back out either so just shoot it or send it back to Spikes.
I figured as much but thought it wouldn’t hurt to ask. I was gooing to shoot it today but I guess not. I’ll be calling Spikes first thing Tuesday. Thannks. Happy 4th
I’m sure that if they could manufacture a one-piece bolt carrier with the carrier key as an integral part they would do so. Unfortunately it’s not economically feasible.
The screws and staking are the next best alternative to being a single piece.
If Spike’s doesn’t repair it, you can do it yourself. Remove the screws, clean the area underneath the key and carrier and then re-torque the screws. You can then stake it with a MOACKS or the improvised field method with a sharp punch. Some people like to apply a high temp thread locker as well.
Like others have said, there should be zero play in it. If it’s staked properly and still moves, I’d be curious if the wrong head size was used on the screws.
Not that I am aware of nor could I find it in the TM. It states that you should replace the screws and carrier key (page 172). However, if it came loose that tells me that it wasn’t torqued properly to begin with since he has stated it appears staked. So I would reuse them.
In the field I have tightened and reused the screws and then staked and the carrier was find. YMMV.
Absolutey. I’ve tightened them once as well but then I think Grant posted about changing screws and then someone posted about the sealant between the key and carrier in the TDP though I don’t believe anyone really does it, nor did I personally read that.
Here’s a little illustration showing how you can have decent looking stakes and still the screws will come loose (left side)
Everything, even the seemingly meaningless stuff, has a downstream effect. How could something like what kind of screws make a difference? Many are very roundy on top, and they kinda look like they’re knurled, but it’s actually very shallow and/or doesn’t go to the top of the screw head. The military print actually calls these features out; on commercial screws, the knurling pattern is not an industry standard, it is as much each individual manufacturer’s brand recognition feature and styling preference as much as anything.
So-- good staking and meets-industry-standards screw, but rounded head and no knurling there, may result in no actual metal to metal contact. Screws come loose… they can’t get out of the key but lift the key with them as they turn out. This is why I think the counter stake is important, and it can be done to a totally adequate level with a centerpunch or better, an automatic centerpuch.
Yup.
The only TM/FM/whatever M instances I’ve seen regarding thread locker is when working with a rifle style stock where the stuff is present on the threads of the receiver extension screw that passes through the upper buttstock hole. Lower screw that retains the sling attachment is bare.
Gas key is staked, carbine receiver extension nut is staked, pistol grip has star type lock washer, muzzle device is crush or peel washers, old A1 muzzle device is split lock washer and barrel nut is moly grease.
MBUIS and other rail attached devices that have a set screw affixment come with a dot of locker on the threads but that’s pretty much the only other instance beyond the rifle stock screw that it is mentioned or applied.
Spikes is rumored to have decent customer service and its waranteed for life so I’m just going to send it back, give them one more chance and chalk this up too bad luck as I’ve never heard this happening with any other people’s keys.
If it happens again I will sell the entire rifle and move on to another brand.
Some edjucational stuff in this thread though and its why this forum is so valuable. I sold my WASR’s last week and got a converted Saiga so if I have to sell this and pick up a DD or LMT so be it.
I thought I remembered reading something about the thread locker in between the key and the carrier as well… I’m not going to say whether it’s true or not, that would be way out of my lane, but it may be coming from here.
Young claims the TDP (or I assume they’re talking about the TDP, since it’s not actually named) calls for a gasket sealer between the two surfaces, but they use thread locker instead.
They are talking about permatex on the interface between the Key and Bolt Carrier, not the screw threads.
You want to lock the heads of the screws, not the shafts. I would want to be able to remove them without shearing the heads off. I would go for properly staked and avoid the thread locker.
I used an auto punch on a Del-Ton BCG that had a loose gas key (go figure). I put the BCG in my vice and then it took about five or so punches per side & screw, but after I squared it away it has been in working order.
