If I could put a NF or acog on every gun I own or use, I would. If I had a nickel for every broken ARMS mount ive seen on Mk12s, I’d have enough to buy a Larue mount for one. The DMs that put ACOGs on their 12s said they did so because they were tired of breaking the Mk4 leupolds. Since most snipers used 4x scopes in world war two, and I witnessed that kid tag that bomb layer in the spine, I don’t argue with sound logic. I asked a SEAL a couple of years ago why they used NF scopes on their MK11 & M14 EBRs. They said “cause they hold zero and we can’t break em’!”
Yes I am aware of the evolution to the mod 1’s however in the context of this particular discussion we are talking about cloning military guns for the sake of I guess cloning something:confused: I am not a cloner so perhaps there are other reasons.
Pezboy…if you don’t think that a barrel and a overall more rigid platform with a contentious uninterrupted top rail is important to accuracy than that is certainly your opinion but I totally disagree. If your logic holds true we might as well all use MOE handguards and Oly barrels on our precision based ARs.
Depends on the two specific barrels in question, but for my 16" Noveske N4 and my 18" Noveske SPR (CL vs SS) it’s 100 fps - give a take a few fps in either direction.
This is with a 77 gr SMK reload that runs 2,700 fps in the SPR barrel. I suspect the difference in two similar barrels of the same material and chamber would be less than 50 fps.
Kyle Defoor’s post in the barrel paradigm thread is my favorite reply Ive read on any internet forum. I spent 2 yrs. building and analyzing the MK12 vs the Recce and my ultimate conclusions were summarized in Kyle’s reply far better than I could have said it and there is perhaps no more opinion on the topic of real world precision ARs that I would trust more.
And to that effect, I’d add that quality glass has as much to do with the range envelope as the barrel length.
There are so many good 16" and 18" barrels out there, a spot on builder can make a tack driver - and a good scope is absolutely worth its weight.
The SAM-R, to be honest, is my favorite rifle silhouette in the world, alongside the SR47, but neither is terribly practical (so I just have an airsoft version of each), and have a Centurion Mk12 barreled upper and an ADCO built Recce type rifle.
Neither is an exact copy, but the key components are carried over.
I’m about to put my Mk12 upper on a severe diet, in order to make it handle better offhand, and with a can on it, but on square range I must say that the 18" is a pretty fantastic experience.
The company of grunts I was with showed me what the Mk12 could do, a sound suppressor and decent glass made it the squad’s most flexible weapon, I think the most salient point is that combining those things - good barrel, good trigger, good glass, and a can - is what made them so effective. The part #'s don’t have to match, that’s just a good combination there.
In non-clone form, I think these two general uppers bring the most to the table - with newer handguards, top end glass, and a good can I feel that they ares the marksman’s preeminent poodle shooter
It isn’t ideal by any means, but a 10.5’’ will make consistent hits out to 800 yards on a 12x12’’ plate if you have good glass on it.
My 11’’ got 24-30 hits by a friend of mine on a LaRue Sniper Target (he owns) when I let him borrow my 11’’ KAC upper. He used it with NF 2.5x10X scope.
… it looked weird, but it made consistent hits. Using 75 gr. TAP, and 77 gr. BH.
It’s the shooter. Not the gun.
That said, I’d rather have a Sniper M4 at that range.
