The M4 is here to stay. I really think it is the apex in individual weapons technology until humans invent laser beams…:lol:
You cannot beat an M4 with a 14.5 inch barrel, mid length gas system, sopmod stock, improved springs(sprinco) and proper weighted buffer(H or H2). Mike Pannone and others have done the tests (Pat Rogers’ filthy 14). A BCM with 11590E cert. steel barrel, proper mil-spec staked 8620 BCG with a Carpenter 158 bolt HP and MPI tested with all the goodies and a good optic with BUIS will do anything. It is the ONE GUN.
"There is no replacement for the [M4] carbine,” said Brig. Gen. Daniel O’Donohue, director of the Capabilities.
The M4 carbine is a shortened version of the M16 family, but uses the same operating system – a direct gas tube system, which cycles the weapon using the gas created inside the barrel when a bullet is fired. The system blows hot gases mixed with carbon residue into the firing mechanism, drying up lubrication and causing extreme wear and tear on internal parts.
Whaddya know? I didn’t realize the M16/M4 suffered from “extreme wear and tear on internal parts” from the hot gases blown into the firing mechanism. I guess I’m gonna have to “upgrade” my AR to a “modern piston system”
Eh.
While the M4/M16FOW are caipable and useful tools, there are several things that could be changed to improve the system.
To simply roll over and declare it the bestest thing since individually wrapped cheese slices is a bit hasty and lacking breadth of perspective.
why would the USMC bother? they already made the move to the IAR and it’s not like anything else on the market is massively superior to the M4 in the real world, so why bag it? the m4 has really kinda just become a PDW for the USMC in a sense. Seems like it fills that role nicely.
Just because the Corps isn’t following the Army’s lead doesn’t mean the Corps won’t end up with a new weapon. A telling quote from the article;
“Marine officials did say they have considered the possibility of the M27 as a future individual weapon”.
Last week I opined that the M27 also had a lot of characteristics of a good DMR weapon in addition to being an effective automatic rifle. I think the Corps may be looking at it as a multi-purpose platform in the same regard.
It’s become fairly apparent that the biggest issue with the M4 platform is and has been ammunition selection. When we saw Mk262 and Mk318 start cropping up, the weapon suddenly became more lethal at longer range engagements, seemingly out of the blue. M855A1 is a compromise between funtionality and cost, and doesn’t perform quite as well as the former two, but is definitely leaps and bounds ahead of the antiquated M855.
Magazines have come a long way in the last 5 years especially. non-tilt followers, polymer magazines that are actually tougher than aluminum GI mags, windowed, clear, smoke translucent. This has been another major issue that hasn’t been addressed until recently, but also improves the reliability and lethality of the weapon.
We’ve focused so much time on the problems that the solutions took twice as long as they should have to be addressed. Now that these two items have been addressed, there has been a vast improvement in the weapon system over all, so I don’t see it going anywhere soon, especially in the Marine Corps, who also refuses to get rid of it’s stock of M16A4’s, understandably.
Marines have a different mission and different requirements than the Army does. We’re expeditonary, so we need to have that long gun capability that the M16 has over the M4. Can you engage a man-size point target with an M4? Absolutely you can, accurately, but how much muzzle energy is there going to be at that range? Not much. The M16 on the other hand, a bit more, but 800 is stretching the limitations of the weapon and ammunition still.
Again, I don’t see these weapons leaving the Marine Corps any time soon, simply for the fact that the Marine Corps makes due with what it has, and holds on to antiquated things until there is no doubt that transitioning to something new will positively effect the mission as a whole and bring new lethality and capability to Marines on the ground.
Seriously, I’ve worked procurement and selection projects, and I can assure you that there is far less truth to it than those looking in from the outside tend to assume.
The biggest problem is that those in a position to effect change don’t know what they don’t know. How much gunfighting in the last 10 years do you think any current General has done? How much training? How much competition?
Frankly, the USMC has one of the worst track records for procurement and knee-jerk adoption.
I wonder how many weapons could have been purchased with all of the the stuff we recently detroyed in Iraq? Or the Army and their silly uniform of the month program?
There is so much waste that goes on it’s mind numbing.
Well I guess it could happen I think the last expected amounts of deficit spending for the next 2 years is 1.6 trillion next year 1.2 trillion for 2013 we are looking at pushing 20 trillion in debt in less than a few years. So IMHO get new some new shit while they can because all this kicking the can down the road mentality,Its a drop in the bucket mantra, our Navy might end up looking like the Russian Navy dock yards full of rusting empty ships.
I am not about cutting the spending toward defense so do not take it that way. I am saying our country no longer knows how to live with in there means and that never ends well.
I really do think a product improvement plan might be absolutely worth it - start phasing in new parts (small line items like upgrading stocks to A5’s, converting Mk12 MURG uppers as a platoon level asset, moving to longer handguards on M4’s, adding ambidextrous safeties, etc.) these could be single FY budget items that deliver an immediate and tangible improvement in end-user capability without any significant changes in fielding or procedures - just incorporate this into existing maintenance cycles and reissue as Bn sets as available.
A wholesale purchase just isn’t going to happen - too much political tug of war required for where parts come from - which is sad considering a simple TDP adherent reverse auction occuring for every batch of parts required would be a fast and efficient way to procure all of these items.
The M4 as-is isn’t really there, just better than what everybody else uses. A limited SOPMOD type kit as part of the weapon SL3 (TA31, QD base to replace the TA51, A good QD weaponlight) in addition to current issue NOD setups (PEQ15 and PVS14) alone would be an across the board improvement, but it ends up being too focused on end items like the PEQ16 where more capability on paper just leads to oversized overpriced units.
The DoD can actually afford a LOT of cuts, even the Marine Corps can run just as well with a 5% trimming, as this will force prioritization of projects (items like the EFV going away while purchasing a standing AV-8 fleet as a stopgap until the F35B is operationally deployed), elsewhere in the DoD an even larger percentage can be cut (looking at you Army and AF civilians)
There is a chance the M27 becomes the standard across the GCE weapon. They are also looking at both collapsible stocks for A4s and free floating rails for both the A4 and M4.
I know a couple of them who have fired their service weapon in Iraq at the enemy, mostly as Cols or LtCols. But you had Mattis get in several fire fights in OIF II.
Success rate-wise we have had one of the most successful procurement programs out there, with very few programs cut in the past.
My dad retired as a full bird from the AF a few years ago. He was up there in SOUTHCOM in Haiti and spent quite a bit of time running around with the go fast cool guys. He was a very hands on commander. He said the separation between “upper management” and the rest of the gunfighters was pretty ridiculous, even in a fairly low-level conflict like Haiti. He said it was almost bleedingly apparent when the USMC general in charge (dad was HNIC of the SOUTHCOM contingent except for the Marines) “cleared” his gun into the snail trap 3 times before the gunnery sergeant took his pistol away from him. Apparently even the French officers were more in tune than the General in charge of the Marines was.
I just think it illustrates the point F2S brought up. The decision makers aren’t necessarily the people most in touch with the needs of the guy on the battlefield. I think more than anything it’s indicative of larger problems withe the .mil, Army camo of the week for another example, etc.
(btw French MRE equivalents are effing derrrricious. The veal was especially tasty)
