M4guru, I have been making kydex holsters for about 2 months. I wanted an Alessi CQC/S type holster for my guns but they weren’t available or nobody had the mold guns yet. It has been rewarding to make a functional rig that I think looks pretty good. Kydex will never look as good as leather but I have been using kydex in a .060 and a .080 thickness and they work good. Shoot me an e-mail and we can discuss specifics. I hand make each one so they vary a little from piece to piece but I have gotten pretty good at production. After you have done it for a while you begin to come up with jigs and techniques that help with consistency and quality. Here is a belt slide I did for my dad so he could carry his Glock 26 and Glock 34 in the same holster.
For me, it was accuracy, speed, functionality, and versatility (cocked/locked). The fact that you can change varriants is also a plus. The pistol itself is very user friendly and ambidextrous, I can use my thumb or index finger to release the mag. It was very fast with pairs, and quick follow up rapid shots. I used mostly 230gr. from various manufactures. Our duty round is 230gr. Speer gold dot for .45, and it ate every thing I put down the pipe. Believe it or not, the “self luminous” sights are very bright, although I would prefer a Novak low profile sight if/when they make one. Accuracy was just dead on, as is to be expected from HK. The only problem is the lack of “off duty” type holsters. Luckily it fits in my Safariland 6280 duty holster, as well as the model 070 SSIII holster. It does work with the Blackhawk serpa USP model, but it sticks out a little on the bottom. The only thing I would change on the HK45 is the mag release shape is an “L” shape, and takes some getting used to as opposed to the old USP style mag release, but it’s a preference thing for me.
My M&P 45 is a very good gun, but accuracy was not as good as my HK. The trigger pull was a little “sloppy” at first and is just now getting better after break in. I experienced 2 malfunctions in 300 rounds I put through it (this was traced back to a single magazine that has sinced been replaced). The grip choices are good, but could have been “stipled” a little more rough. The sights are excellent, point of aim, point of impact. Speed was still good, follow up shots were fast, but not as fast as the HK. The pistol does feel good in the hand, even for a .45. One major problem I did have, although it did not effect function, was that the right side slide stop sheared completely off, so it’s no longer “ambidextrous”, I have since called S&W and a new slide stop is on its way. I dont think it’s a ding on the pistol, as S&W told me that it was the first one they heard of. All in all, the M&P is a great pistol, and I prefer it over Glocks, but HK vs M&P, I say my HK45. If you get a chance, and you can, shoot both, then that would be the real deciding factor. Hope this helps.
My experience mirrors a lot of what Big A covered in the above post. I carry my HK 45 cocked and locked like a 1911. Shootability is superb for a .45. Holster selection is still a problem so I just made my own out of kydex.
My MP trigger also smoothed out and improved after several hundred rounds of shooting and dry fire. I ended up using a wood burning tool to stipple the front strap, backstraps, and under the trigger guard. I do get a little irritation from the HK 45 on my trigger finger from the groove inside the triggerguard after a while shooting it. I’ll probably just sand it down a little.
Some people complain about only having 10 rounds on hand in these pistols but that doesn’t bother me. I’ll trade ergonomics over capacity any day. Both of my pistols have been 100% reliable so far at about 2500 rounds each. I have been very pleased with both of these purchases.
kgreen,
I agree on the capacity, I have a USP 45F, and I prefer the 10 of HK45 over the 12 rd USP any day. If you need the extra 2 rds., then the #%^& has definitely hit the fan.
On another note kgreen, those holsters look awesome, I may have some buiseness for you also because you have talent brother, very nice indeed. They look like they fit very comfortably, any problems or do you plan to change anything up a little after making mods or anything like that? Be safe 
Have tried the M&P45, HK45, and HK45C.
Initially preferred the M&P to HKs w LEM, but after more shooting w both, and more w V1 HKs, I prefer the HKs.
I prefer the HK45C to the HK45 too. I haven’t tried the new M&P45C yet, but I’ll probabaly lke that better too. From what I hear, about the same size (7x5, 4 in bbl, 8 shots).
Thanks for the comments. I can tweak the basic design to whatever you would like. They have proven to be very comfortable, especially with the thinner material.
I’ve got a question for those that have shot both - does the higher boreline (relative to the grip) of the HK make it less easy to shoot fast than the M&P?
For me it didn’t make a noticeable diffference. I thought the higher bore axis would affect muzzle flip but both guns shoot quickly and recover quicker than any .45’s I’ve personally fired before. That includes the Glock 21 and 1911’s in various configurations.
The HK is quicker on the trigger for me due to the single action but a trigger job on the MP might help it I’m sure. I would really like to send the MP to Bowie Tactical and have him do one of his trigger jobs on it.
interesting. to all who worship in the church J. Moses Browning, the lower bore axis is one of the attributes that prove the superiority of that gun. at least that’s what they say when kicking sand on my SIG.
now I’m hearing that a similar configuration is not hindered by it. interesting…
I’ve never experienced bore axis to be the big issue many make it out to be.
The 1911 is nice, but sight picture recovery in my much-higher bore axis (and lighter) HK USPc .45 ACP is every bit as fast or faster.
Likewise, too low of a bore axis can impart recoil energy to direct into the hand and make tracking sights under recoil more unpredictable. Really low bore axis works OK with 9mm’s but heavier recoiling calibers need to roll back in the hand smoothly, IMO. Incidentally, there truly is very little down side to a gun that has muzzle flip, as long as the sights come back down predictably and quickly, or so it has been my experience.
HK’s combination of long dwell time, heavy slide and light recoil springs makes for a very comfortable firing pistol.
Tim
Without a shot timer, there is no way to tell whether one is shooting a particular gun faster or slower than another. Our visual reference is distorted by a number of other things.
As always, everything is relative. Someone who consistently shoots 0.30 splits has a different frame of reference than someone who consistently shoots 0.15 splits. Bore axis definitely plays a role in speed. But it’s not the only factor. A gun with a low bore axis might still have more flip or less controllable flip than one with a higher axis. But all else being equal, a lower bore axis seems to help most people make accurate shots faster.
Agreed. Pistols are definitely a system that must be compatible with the shooter’s grip and technique.
However, I’ve seen way too many lunkheads dismiss SIGs and HKs out of the gate simply after picking them up and assessing that they have a too high of a bore axis, or worse yet, because somebody else told them they have too high of a bore axis. Fewer actually run the gun long enough to determine for themselves the true facts.
Admittedly, after handling a Glock or 1911 for some time, it feels a bit awkward to hold a SIG or an HK. But that’s perception, not reality. The truth is in how the gun handles in one’s hands.
If bore axis were the most significant factor in fast shot recovery, we’d all be shooting a Steyr M-series. But it’s not. And the M-series is not faster to shoot accurately versus higher-bore axis handguns in my experience.
Tim
I prefer the fullsize M&P45 to the HK45, the HK45c to both of them, and the M&P45c to all of them. Today anyway.
Something really odd: I no longer can find the M&P 45C referenced or pictured on the S&W website. You can find all the other current M&P versions of all the calibers up there (including 45 and 45 mid-size), but only the 45C has been specifically removed.
Wonder why?
I’ve been looking for it and had yet to find the 45c. It was just recently that the 45m’s were added. The other compacts have been on the website for a while.
Low bore axis is desirable for most people. The pistol fits better into your hand and there is less muzzle rise. My HK 45 has much more of a twist and up muzzle rise than my M&P .45 which also has a beavertail that helps control recoil and muzzle rise. I can shoot the M&P .45 faster and more accurately as a result. Same with Glocks vs. Sigs. This is also why 1911 gunsmiths have gone to great lengths to get a low bore axis although they are still higher than most striker fired pistols. Does this mean bore axis is a requirement? Of course not. But to act as if it is not desirable goes against common sense. Using the Steyr M-series as representative of all low bore axis pistols makes no sense btw. Most of the people you see saying low bore axis makes no difference are defending their choice of pistol.
When the new AWB shows up we may see people going back to the bigger bullet less capacity at a time when ammo costs are very high. I would highly recommend the Raven Concealment holster for the HK 45. Comp-Tac also has quite a few models and if you prefer leather then High Noon Holsters.
Not to be to harsh but I do not see how anyone could put these two pistols in the same class. The HK45 is by far the best combat 45acp I have ever shot or owned. I like it so damn much that I sold other HK’s including a couple of Expert models because the HK45 keeps up with them. I have 7k plus rounds through my HK45 and I have not even bothered to clean it yet. All of the rounds through my HK45 have been in training and IDPA shooting etc. It has been 100% in all aspects. I do shoot with several people who use the M&P and though it is a good gun they have not had the 100% reliablity that I have had with the HK45. Yes the HK is more money but you do get what you pay for. I would be guying a XD 45 well before I would buy the M&P. The XD 45acp I have has been 100% and like it much better then the G21SF I purchased. Bottom line is the HK45 is the best combat 45acp on the market today.
Dave
For the small price of $250. You can also order an HK 45 with LEM installed but it might take a while. Either way i would make sure you like the LEM trigger first. Lots of people love it, others don’t. I prefer single action trigger locked and cocked. The HK 45 does have better quality components and fit and finish but only you can decide if it is worth considerably more $$$. Smith has great customer service, HK seriously needs work on theirs. Both are every accurate pistols and i have not seen one be better than the other except if fast follow up shots where the M&P is much better for me.
Nope. You can order them with LEM.