Strong 90:
Basically assume an isosceles shooting position.
Now bend you elbows up about 45 degrees (almost like the pistol is in heavy recoil).
Hold that position and bring your elbows back to your rib cage.
The pistol should be about in front of your face aimed up at about a 45 degree angle.
You should be looking over the front sight which is about 1’ away from your nose.
Can anyone point the way or provide some photos of the positions under discussion?
Thanks
From reading the thread there does seem to be confusion amongst posters with the nomenclature and exactly how the technique(s) is/are performed. I think there are similarities in what different posters are talking about, but their definitions of the technique are a bit different.
I will say that I think shooters should be able to quickly and effortlessly adapt stances, ready positions, etc as the situation dictates. Again situation will dictate, however my preferred ready position is to be in what I call an “Intermediate” or sometimes considered by some to be a “Compressed” ready position. I call it an “Intermediate Ready” because of the confusion which is often associated with “high ready”, “SUL”, “saftey circle”, “low ready” etc… People also have different definitions of what the former actually mean as can be seen in this thread.
My “Intermediate Ready” is an aggressive fighting posture. Might be considered a cross between a “gaming” style high muzzle forward posture when moving and a “Compressed Ready”, or even a SUL. Again I call it an “Intermediate” ready to lessen the confusion in nomenclature or what the position may actually be called. Some might say that it may add another phrase to the already large bucket, or that it already has a name, but in teaching this technique I feel it has its own unique totality of the position that I call it an “Intermediate Ready”. I am mostly concerned with my target group and that all of us are on the same page when interacting with one another. Prior to coming under my instruction they have already had several other instructors and have generally learned variations of different techniques. Indeed when I say high ready or any other position, you will get different guys doing different variations. Therefore I call it an “Intermediate Ready” which is definitely unique from the formal training that they have already been through. This cuts out any confusion amongst these students as to what position I am talking about after I have taught it.
To explain my stance or preferred ready position, I will say that I am a correct, err right hander. My “Intermediate Ready” is maintaining a normal two handed shooting grip on the weapon. From a high draw, the number 3 position where the hands meet and establish a good two handed grip, I maintain my good 2 handed shooting grip and I bring the weapon in to my chest about nipple line height where I rotate my hands, in my shooting grip, counter clockwise to about the 10 o’clock position and I depress the muzzle downwards. You must stay compact as the tendency to want to chicken wing the primary elbow is high as the support elbow lies against the side of the body. Correct and consistent training is the key to avoid this. The angle at which I depress the muzzle down is situation dependent. It can vary from about 1 yard in front of my feet to whatever distance I chose.
This might sound like “SUL” or “Safety Circle” to some, but it is not a classic muzzle straight down and I do not use this “Intermediate Ready” position in a stack. As for “SUL”, if / when I do use a “SUL” I have the standard downward muzzle but I will release the two handed grip placing my support thumb on my sternum pointing toward my chin, with a flat open hand slightly angled to just clear my feet. My support hands index finger will remain in its normal shooting grip position, stacked on the primary hand and high under the trigger guard. The weapon lays flat against the back of my support hand. If or when necessary I can easily “roll” right into my normal shooting grip as I present the weapon or orientate the muzzle forward to the target.
This Intermediate ready has;
- Low likely hood of telegraphing.
- Excellent field of view, left, right, up and down.
- Excellent weapon retention properties from keeping the elbows in a bent position which helps retention power and keeps the weapon near the body or our axis.
- Places the the support hand in a “cocked” position in the upper torso area near the head. Almost the same position for an empty handed defensive posture. We can quickly snap the support hand up to protect the head, similar to a boxer or MMA defense where the chin tucks and the support hand goes to the temple or ear area, elbow points forward to fend off a blow. Our weapon is already in a good tuck or retention spot which can be slightly altered if necessary for weapon defense or a tucked shooting position. This also allows for a quick offensive or defensive support hand strikes.
- Low chance of muzzling when trained and executed correct (muzzle not pointing forward).
- Quick target acquisition with high accuracy achieved by keeping the weapon high in line with my eyes so that I can punch the weapon straight out and pick up sights quickly, or like with a good “high draw” I am inline and can break shots from any position, before or up to lock out.
- Might have to consider weapon trapped to body, but when trained in conjunction with good open handed type of defenses, this is greatly lessened. I really do not consider it a drawback as it places me in a good “open handed” type of defensive posture that allows my support hand to be better utilized when needed.
Again I will say that I do use and teach other positions. Just like teaching kids T-ball or any sport. We train the basic skills and the player adapts them into their unique style honing the fundamentals. We need to be able to be thinkers and be adaptive in what we do to fit the situation that we are faced with and we need to be able to do it virtually without thinking.
Here are some pics of the “Strong 90”.
Here is a more typical “high compressed ready”:
Here is Sul:
My “default” ready position would probably be a high ready (Sabrina).
Mainly because it works well with a handgun and a carbine under most conditions.
The gun is up in my workspace if I need to do any manipulations, it’s not a tiring position, it promotes heads up situational awareness, you can fight from it fairly well, retention is good and it’s quick to get back on target.
Its always been my understanding that “Sabrina” is muzzle straight up. Is that what you are doing or is it an actual high ready (muzzle up at approx 45 degrees)?
Muzzle straight up.
My strong arm is tight to the right side of my body, forearm is touching my bicep.
Muzzle straight up, gun is about 6" to the right of my cheek.
Weak arm is across my chest and I maintain my firing grip with both hands.
When I do it with a carbine I grip the front of the magwell with my weak hand.
Here’s a pic of me doing a kneeling “Sabrina” with a carbine.
Thanks. I view the two (Sabrina and High Ready) as very different things hence the reason I asked.
I wouldn’t consider them “very different”.
Sabrina, high ready, compressed retention and strong 90 are all very close to the same thing and each can morph into the other with ±15 degrees of angle or a slight arm movement.
That’s one reason I don’t get all wrapped up in ready positions.
Muzzle awareness, situational awareness, control of the weapon… you’re GTG .
I agree with the not getting wrapped up in ready positions thing. Thats why I typically work in some variation of high ready, low ready, and Sul. When it comes to the muzzle up position; I havent seen a need for it and view it as coming with more negatives than positives.
And before anyone says anything;I know that people view it (muzzle up) as being needed when working on ships and horseback (the two most common reasons I see cited).
A lot of it depends on your physical size, what your preferred retention and striking methods are, whether you have partners, how you run your gun and your ROE.
While my preferred aggressive ready position is “Sabrina”, my most often used ready position would probably be “covert ready” because I use it when answering the door for strangers or investigating what the dog’s barking at.
My take on the compressed high ready is slightly different than apparently everyones, lol…I do not bring the front sight up to eye level and the bore is parallel to the ground. My goal is to be able to engage from the position with no adjustment if the threat is close enough. Picture a sul with both hands in a firing grasp and the muzzle straight towards target. I am over the gun so I can see the front sight in my lower peripheral but the gun but of the gun is near my nipple line.
NCPatrolAR, I can see your low level threat concerns with the compressed high ready pictured. What is the reasoning behind the elevated muzzle in high ready? Guess I am really more of the intermediate ready that Surf described except my muzzle is straight forward…
If your muzzle is parallel to the ground it greatly limits your ability to move and scan without muzzle sweeping other people.
Muzzle up or down allows you to scan and move without sweeping people who don’t need a gun pointed at them.
The farther up or down you’re muzzle is, the more freedom of movement you have.
Muzzle up often permits shooters to have the front sight either in their direct line of sight or peripheral vision. It’s much like the Satterwhite ready that used to be in favor with shotgunners.
I can see the parallels to the Satterwhite ready, guess I was expecting something else. I also understand shooting slightly out of the notch, etc but not to that level. My question then would be why not incorporate the wheelie into the draw if it is an advantage? Please understand, my intention is not to be argumentative but to understand why…
As far as sweeping non threats maybe I am wrong but I don’t see that level of muzzle elevation being significantly safer. I can still scan by moving my head, eyes etc while I am moving. In my skillset, once I identify a non threat in front of me that is where the migration towards Sul or a retention begins or I simply change my direction of travel to avoid a collision, thereby redirecting my muzzle. Sabrina is all yours unless it involves climbing a ladder or a whole lot of people on the floor waiting to be flexcuffed. If the non threat, etc is not in front of me my muzzle doesn’t need to change.
What if you were on a rubber raft slung under a helicopter in a entry stack surrounded by rabid Mongols?
That’s why I stated earlier, ready positions are dynamic.
One size doesn’t fit all.
That’s why focusing on a single ready position is pointless.
You can have a default position, but know that plan A never works so you better have plan B and C ready to roll.
Again… watch your muzzle, watch your surroundings, control your weapon, name it anything you feel like 'cause it’s all good.
That’s easy, the sobbing in the fetal unready position cause heights, sharks and angry hordes really scare me!
Dont forget, I agreed on multiple positions being necessary from the beginning. My contention was not that multiple ready positions are not necessary, just that I don’t see the need for low ready to be one of them. Thanks for the discussion though guys, I feel I have learned from it.