Just wanted to throw this out and see what people are doing and why.
To be clear, I often/usually come back to a high compressed ready (#3 in my drawstroke) position after I fire at extension as I scan and access or prepare for another (possible) target(s).
Got reprimanded recently for not going to a Low Ready after shooting at on a simulator. No good reason was offered. Later a more seasoned trainer said that while it’s “good for competition”, you are violating Rule #2 when out on the square range.
I’m asking as my training is geared towards either on-duty, SWAT, and/or possible off-duty encounters.
I won’t muddy things up with my other thoughts yet. Looking for others insight into the two positions and their own experience.
Your ready position will be situation dependent.
An instructor who get’s wrapped up in your ready position is probably just a parrot, not a teacher.
If your finger is off the trigger, your muzzle is in a safe direction, you have control of your weapon and good situational awareness… your ready position is fine.
There are FAR more important things to correct on 99% of the shooters out there than their ready position.
One reason may be that it’s not a bad habbit to follow a target down to the ground…as in you shoot them till they drop, then follow them down to the ground, ready to take another shot if necessary.
It’s not to say that Low Ready is the ticket, just that some people need to get shot even after they’ve dropped to the ground.
If they didn’t explain this though, this may not be why they got all bent out of shape.
The appropriate ready positions are also distance-dependent. The farther away the target, the more appropriate low ready is. At a certain distance (closer in) low ready becomes a liability and the compressed high ready makes much more sense.
If I understand your post correctly the instructor’s thought was that the compressed high ready had you muzzleing targets/people that hadn’t earned it yet and was a violation of the safety rules? If so I don’t really see how a low ready, weapon depressed at a shallow angle, still pointing in same direction is significantly better. Personally I don’t see a task for the low ready that the compressed high ready can’t do better. Not saying it is wrong per say, I just don’t see a benefit to it.
Definitely position sul is valid if in team environment or crowd…I am an instructor at my agency as well and while I agree there are many more significant problems with cops shooting I also find that eliminating low ready is just one less thing to teach the LCD’s and the compressed high ready is part of the draw anyway. Also, under stress their low ready migrates to a high ready or “aimed in” and they can’t recognize threats because the gun is in their face.
From a LE perspective; low ready is highly useful when searching for people and during entries. Keeping the gun high (IME) tends to cause people to miss low threats and presents weapon retention issues.
Ok, I just wanted to be sure I was tracking. With all due respect, and I know I am a nobody around here, but my experience leads me to disagree with it’s (low ready) usefulness. I would tend to agree with what Jay said about low ready being more acceptable at longer distances. I also think that the reason it is more acceptable is because at longer range your necessary engagement time (due to increased shot difficulty) is such that the initial position is relatively unimportant.
In our training I see it causing major issues with telegraphing an officers approach to doorways, corners, etc during searching and leading to major retention issues. Further, I have seen officers pervert the position and it moves into line of sight leading to slower engagement times due to slower recognition times.
Also, unless it is seriously depressed below line of sight I have seen it cause missing low threats much more often than a compressed high ready where the shooter is aggressively over the gun.
For team based entries, and I know the state loves the position, I feel it causes major muzzling issues and an unacceptable gap between officers as they clear the threshold. We run compressed high ready in point and variations of sul or a retention position behind it, situationally dependent.
We are all going to have different takes on what is/isnt useful based on our differing training and expereince. I didnt use low ready as much as I do know until I di some training with Scott Reitz and continually missed low threats on entries due to my arms and gun blocking my field of view. After that (and watching police recruits constantly miss low line subjects), I saw the usefulness of it and make use of it quite often on searches. In fact, I used in a great deal theother night when we were searching an occupied school for 2 subjects armed with shotguns. For that event, I used a mixture of high ready, low ready, and Sul based on what I was doing.
In our training I see it causing major issues with telegraphing an officers approach to doorways, corners, etc during searching and leading to major retention issues.
Sounds like the officers need to be better versed in multipe positions and have the ability to switch between them as needed. In my book; low ready doesnt mean arms are locked out at full extension and the gun is depressed extremely low. For me; it means the muzzle is oriented down and the gun is down out ofthe line of sight. So if you have guys running around with the guns pushed way down and their arms are locked out, then I could certainly see problems with what the officers are doing.
Also, unless it is seriously depressed below line of sight I have seen it cause missing low threats much more often than a compressed high ready where the shooter is aggressively over the gun.
So the gun in your compressed ready is pulled in pretty close to your chest? Do you keep the muzzle oriented up?
For team based entries, and I know the state loves the position, I feel it causes major muzzling issues and an unacceptable gap between officers as they clear the threshold. We run compressed high ready in point and variations of sul or a retention position behind it, situationally dependent.
We use various positions for team work also. If you arent point and there isnt a threat area to cover; you are at Sul.
To me, compressed high ready is essentially the #3 position of the draw. Pull straight back from extension until you reach the point just before where the wrists start to break and open the hands. The muzzle is oriented in the direction the shooter is facing and the bore is essentially parallel to the ground. This brings it pretty close to the chest and when in an aggressive stance starts to bring your head over the gun. It is sort of a muzzle forward Sul. To me, I can see low level threats with it easier than I can with the low ready because the gun is in so much tighter (unless I do a really exaggerated muzzle at my feet low ready). In the compressed high ready I was taught, the gun is down below your line of sight as well, but your arms are not blocking 2 feet of vision towards your feet (as the extended arms in the low ready position do) and it is impossible to stay in the sights if you are doing the position right.
Question for you, have you seen any issues with students dipping their heads when in the low ready, trying stay in the sights and then trying to use the upper peripheral vision to navigate, etc?
I definitely agree that officers need to be versed in multiple positions/techniques and learn the use of them. I guess what I can’t see is any benefit for the low ready that the compressed high ready doesn’t do as well or better. Now granted, this is all based on pistols. Low ready with a carbine is a completely different story.
Low ready, sucks as a fighting position, fair retention position, might be better at picking up low targets but that could come at the expense of missing high targets. Under stress it tends to creep into an aimed in position. People tend to drop their head/eyes when their hands/gun drop. Is fairly low profile.
High ready (Sabrina), blocks some peripheral vision on the gun side, good striking position, can allow your opponent to get “under the gun”, promotes “heads up” situational awareness. Appears to be a aggressive position.
Compressed retention, good for striking, retention and shooting, very prone to muzzling issues. Fairly low profile.
Sul, Works well in a crowd of friendlies but the gun can be trapped against you easily. Poor striking position. The cocked wrist is easy to exploit on a takeaway. Very low profile.
Strong 90, Good striking position, good retention, fast on target, partially obstructs your vision, can have some muzzling issues. Extremely aggressive, intimidating position.
There is no perfect retention position.
It is all situational dependent and your ready position should NOT be static.
Example:
I draw and shoot someone to the ground.
I follow them to the ground with my sights and pause in low ready to verify they are down.
Now I need to check my 360.
I switch to a one handed “Sabrina” and rotate to my left, letting my free arm sweep ahead of my turn.
I see an unknown person rushing towards me.
I transition to a strong 90 and challenge them.
After verifying my 360 is secure I re-assess the downed BG from compressed retention.
I top off my gun from a high position in front of my face.
Go to a one handed compressed retention so I can call 911 with my free hand.
Now, not wanting to re-holster nor wanting to stand around with a gun waving in the air, if I can put my back to a wall I might switch to “covert ready” (gun in hand, slightly behind the thigh) or maybe to Sul if I’m just going to be standing around.
Can you describe strong 90 I am unfamiliar with the term? Also, just so there is no confusion in what I am advocating, i was taught high ready = compressed high ready and I am not speaking of Sabrina. Looking back at a previous post there may have been some confusion…