+1 bring what you have be trained to use it!
well I am not tactical yoda , but I happen to disagree with you. so I am sure I must be all wrong… but then again I only ran a 6 shot for a full year of shit hard use in iraq… 
I often enjoy being wrong tho…
I do have a car payment tho , if that changes anything…
Some of my points have already been covered by other posters; but here’s my take on it.
A.) They ruin the balance and pointing characteristics of a weapon that was always meant to be Rapidly employed and aimed at CQB distances, where getting the first accurate shot off is paramount.
I, along with countless others, havent encountered this. I use a non-side saddle’ed gun at work, but my training and personal guns have them. I dont see an difference in how any of the guns manuver.
B.) Side Saddles are about the slowest and unsteady-est method of reloading a shot gun there is.
My expereince doesnt agree with this. How can having shells next to the loading port be slower than going to your belt, a pouch, etc? From a pure economy of motion perspective; your hand moves a great deal less when reloading from the side saddle versus other methods.
C.) Side Saddles impede proper slug transition loading from either the top or the bottom.
You have a slight point if you are wanting to go across the top of the gun and load through the ejection port. I do all of my reloading through the bottom of the gun, so it isnt an issue for me and how I run the gun.
D.) Side Saddles impede the rapid employment of the weapon from the weak side muzzle down sling carry position.
How?
(You can talk about single point slings all you want,
Most people are more likely to talk about adjustable two point slings; not single points.
But that old bastard, who’s pretty salty with the shotgun, who’s innocently and non threateningly carrying that 18" shotgun muzzle down on the weak side, on a conventional sling, sling swivel about mid stock, is the guy you really need to watch. Because He’ll slap that thing up and kill two or three of you before your handguns clears the holster.)
Lets leave crap like this out of the discussion. It isnt adding anything and in reality isnt helping your case any.
I’ve always had this theory that people just think hanging shotgun shells on the side of a shotgun just makes it look more like a tacticool deadly weapon, rather than like Elmer Fudd’s turkey gun and that looking scary tacticool seems to be really important to a lot of people on the Gun Webz.
I’ve always had this theory that people that dont understand how to properly employ items have a tendency to write them off as being “tacticool”.
The one with just the webbing, with a Couple of MOLLE dump bags stuck on it. One full of Buck and one full of Slugs. is much much Faster.
Again I ask; how? With the side saddle your hand moves several inches and you know exactly how the shells are oriented. If using pouches like you are speaking of; your hand has to travel several feet to reload the gun and since the shells are loose in your pouch; you are never sure of the orientation of the shell when you grab for it. If you have the pouch sealed; it slows the reload that much more.
Carries substantially more ammo
True and thats the reason we want something like that to carry supplemental ammo for topping off the sidesaddle or reloading the gun during lulls.
and you can even add some velcro to the back and fold up the sling…For those of you that just have to hang it on the shotgun because you can’t conceive of keeping track of your gear any other way.
:nono: There goes another dip in the credibility.
Now I’m sure, that someone will be along shortly to tell me that Shotgun Yoda, Sensi Billy Bob at the uber Tacticool training course says Side Saddles are the greatest thing since the invention of the pump action. Which is fine…But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom…and now I’m imparting it to you. “I don’t give a **** if Han’s Vang is selling them…Hans Vang’s got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there’s a demand.”
Hmmmmm; listen to the advice of professional trainers skilled in the use of the shotgun, factor in personal expereince, etc versus listening to some random guy on the internet with some off the wall comments? Yeah; I think I’ll default to the Shotgun Yodas. 
Oh and let me add this… dont start trolling the thread.
I dont claim to be a tactical yoda, but heres me screwing around with a reload drill. I dont see how not using a side saddle is going to be faster. It would be a lot slower with a pouch. I haven’t had any balance or pointing issues with a side saddle. I’ve done faster times on a drill like this, but we only did one take for this video. I’m not claiming this is the fastest, this is just the way I trained and it seems to work good. If theres a better way, I have an open mind and I will consider it.
DarwinsLilHelper, if you have deployed a shotgun in harms way in the military, as a peace officer, or in a similar occupation, please give us some real world examples of how a side saddle was or would have been be detrimental to you in the specific scenarios you encountered first hand.
If the shotgun-toting fellow is a threat, why would anyone wait for him to start trying to deploy his shotgun before just shooting him? Maybe ol’ salty bastard has watched too many westerns.
But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom…and now I’m imparting it to you. “I don’t give a **** if Han’s Vang is selling them…Hans Vang’s got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there’s a demand.”
Agreed. That is a TINY bit of wisdom.
Rosco
I keep the brass at the top, shell down, but then I combat reload over the top, and my hand goes over the top sliding fore-stock forward, to chamber the shell. However, my buddy, whose hands are a bit smaller then mine, can’t hold the shell in his palm facing downwards, so he has to reach under, and so keeps the brass at the bottom. So I would probably try both and see what works best for you.
Either way “should” work so long as you keep things consistent and use the side ammo saddle first (if loaded brass down). This could also be dependent on the shotgun and ammo used. Pump guns with full power loads generate a lot of recoil (duh). And recoil is your enemy in more ways than one.
I’m not a LEO, but I’ve been a serious shotgun competitor in various venues for a few decades. For me it’s five OO buck - brass down + one slug - brass up; but in my case the shotgun stays unloaded in the front pew of the safe. It’s not the primary. The side saddle would give me a quick 1st load and it’s always transported or stored in the same condition. Firearm is a M1S90 with 8+2 capacity and I load Federal tactical reduced recoil buck and slugs.
In a match (or training from an unloaded start), the side saddle gets used first due to better loading speed and better dexterity under stress. SS ammo can fall out if enough rounds are fired, but from fully loaded I’ve never* had a problem if using the side saddle ammo as the next in. [*The exception is starting with a full load of 9 or 10 slugs in the gun.]
Obviously you need to keep the side saddle clear of any lube and degrease if in doubt. And see what actually works with live fire at the range.
Is 3-Gun Gear the only manufacturer that makes a velco attachment side-saddle?
I’d really like one like that, but that only holds 4 or 5 shells since I use field length forends.
My officers which carry a shotgun are all brass up. For me, it lessens the chance of them falling out. When the sidesaddle starts dropping rounds, it gets replaced. Thier Sidesaddles are loaded with Slugs only. Extra 00/ Slugs are carried on thier plate carriers or a stock pack if they chose to add it. They have the option of having some type of BOB with spare issued/approved shotty ammo in it also. In fact, I encourage them to carry extra ammo. Of course, I also encourage them to get a patrol rifle .
Vang has a velco attachment side-saddle (6 shells)
Be advised the two attach in different ways. The 3 Gun/Remington MCS type uses the adhesive backed Velcro to attach directly to the shotgun, while the Vang uses a plate that the Velcro is stuck to which is then held on with screws to the shotgun.
Mark will custom make his side saddles I believe. He was going to do a run of 6 loop Mossberg ones for one of our customers, but the customer has not panned out yet.
Here is what works for me. I have the Mesa 6 shell saddle. In the spot closest to the barrel, I have a round brass up. The next spot is empty. The next four are brass down.
My thinking is that if I run dry, I can grab the forward round, go over the top and feed it into the ejection port in a hurry. The empty spot gives me some room to work with as I’m guessing this will be one of those “oh shit” moments. The rest are brass down for loading the tube.
I do a little IPSC every month, but am not LE or MIL.
Wow… I don’t quite know how to respond to this. But I’ll give it a try…
A.) They ruin the balance and pointing characteristics of a weapon that was always meant to be Rapidly employed and aimed at CQB distances, where getting the first accurate shot off is paramount.
I’ve been running shotguns since I was a kid, and I’ve never had a problem with a sidesaddle ruining the balance or pointing of a shotgun. The weight is near the center of mass. If you find that the weight of four 12-gauge shells impedes your ability to run the weapon properly, then I could suggest some exercise routines to strengthen your arms.
B.) Side Saddles are about the slowest and unsteady-est method of reloading a shot gun there is.
I would counter that they are the fastest and easiest method I’ve used. They’re faster than butt-cuff shell holders, sling shell holders (you want to talk about ruining a weapon’s handling characteristics, sling shell holders are the best way to do it), belt shell holders, vests, etc etc ad nauseum.
C.) Side Saddles impede proper slug transition loading from either the top or the bottom.
WTF? Pull slug from sidesaddle. Insert into magazine. Cycle action. Problem solved. Not that difficult.
D.) Side Saddles impede the rapid employment of the weapon from the weak side muzzle down sling carry position. (You can talk about single point slings all you want, But that old bastard, who’s pretty salty with the shotgun, who’s innocently and non threateningly carrying that 18" shotgun muzzle down on the weak side, on a conventional sling, sling swivel about mid stock, is the guy you really need to watch. Because He’ll slap that thing up and kill two or three of you before your handguns clears the holster.)
Again, WTF? I’ve run shotguns with conventional two-point carry straps and single-point slings both, and never had an issue with the sidesaddle getting in the way of either. The only sling it might tangle with would be a three-point HK-style sling, and who uses those at all these days, much less on a shotgun?
I’ve always had this theory that people just think hanging shotgun shells on the side of a shotgun just makes it look more like a tacticool deadly weapon, rather than like Elmer Fudd’s turkey gun and that looking scary tacticool seems to be really important to a lot of people on the Gun Webz.
I’ve always had this theory that the shotgun’s two major flaws are its limited range and limited ammo capacity. Having four or six extra shells attached to the weapon, in easy reach of my support hand for either select-slug or emergency reloads, quite possibly doubles my ammo capacity, and allows me to extend the range of the shotgun via slugs.
Fact is…While it doesn’t look nearly as tacticool. An Eagle (Site Sponser) Active Shooter Rig. The one with just the webbing, with a Couple of MOLLE dump bags stuck on it. One full of Buck and one full of Slugs. is much much Faster. Carries substantially more ammo and you can even add some velcro to the back and fold up the sling…For those of you that just have to hang it on the shotgun because you can’t conceive of keeping track of your gear any other way.
While I agree you could carry more ammo that way, dump pouches are hardly ideal. I’ve seen more than one student, under the basic low-level stress of a training course, fumble a reload out of a dump pouch, including trying to load the shells into the magazine backwards. Having the shells in a known orientation reduces the chances of FUBARing the reload significantly, and increases the speed of the reload since you don’t have to figure out the orientation, or correct it. Eagle makes a dedicated shotgun patrol bandoleer that is quite useful, especially for a bedside gun or grab-and-go setup, but simply tossing loose shells into a dump pouch went the way of the dodo around 1917.
Now I’m sure, that someone will be along shortly to tell me that Shotgun Yoda, Sensi Billy Bob at the uber Tacticool training course says Side Saddles are the greatest thing since the invention of the pump action. Which is fine…But the old shotgun salt who taught me. Imparted this tiny bit of wisdom…and now I’m imparting it to you. “I don’t give a **** if Han’s Vang is selling them…Hans Vang’s got a house payment and a car payment like everybody else and knows there’s a demand.”
When I asked the old shotgun salt who taught me, why he kept going to classes despite all the skill and experience he had, he simply said, “Nobody can teach you everything, but everyone can teach you something.” You seem to have a grudge against anyone who tries to teach others some of their accumulated knowledge. Fact is, there are some shitty trainers out there who don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground, but there are also some truly high-speed guys who have a lot to teach you, if only you’ll listen. The best ones don’t insist you follow their doctrine, and will tell you up front that you should take from them what works, and leave the rest. Is it so hard to believe that someone might know more about a given subject than you do?
Now, that said, I’ll move on to the OP’s question.
I’ve seen several ways to run the sidesaddle. Several folks I know have ragged on shells-down, because under stress and constant movement, the shells can fall out. I’ve never had this happen, but enough trustworthy and experienced people have seen it that I don’t automatically discount the phenomenon.
I’ve seen half up, half down, sometimes all the same type of shell, and sometimes separating buck from slug. If this works for you, go for it.
My personal setup is alternating up and down, with the front-most shell brass-up. This puts a space between the shell rims, letting my big paws get a grip more easily. Having shells in both orientation lets me reload the magazine with the bottom shells, and do emergency reloads through the ejection port with the top shells. Since my shotgun is purely a home-defense weapon, I don’t carry slugs on it, but if you’re using it for a patrol weapon you might want to keep some in the sidesaddle.
A small point I left out. The other reason the last two shells in my side saddle are brass up is because I shoot left handed. I found that often when brass down the last shell would hit my Trigger finger under recoil.
Man, this Darwin guy… I’ve seen some of his other posts. I’m left wondering why a guy who is such an obvious pro bothers to show us hacks the light. :neo:
The two HD shotguns (870 and 1187) are rigged the same - 20" Deer Barrel with Rifle Sights, 8 Shot Choate tube; only difference is the 1187 has a TLR-1 with tape switch on the tube.
Five #4 Buck in the tube, chamber empty
Four Slugs in a Tac-Star side saddle - Brass on top
Five 00 Buck in a Butt Cuff - Brass on top
Seems to handle well for me, and (so far) reloads are not a problem.
