I’ve been shopping for a higher end LPV, considering glass quality, durability, weight, and reticle among some of the most important factors for me. I’m really hoping to get into a good FFP model, so I keep finding myself looking at Leupold, but I’ve read about some problems they’ve had in the last few years. I’ve also read that they seem to be addressing the complaints, and have been doing better, specifically with the Mark 5 line. As I’m looking for a 1-6 or 1-8 power, I’m considering the Mark 6. Does anybody have any input on these scopes and if they’re gtg, or if I should steer clear?
I’m also open to suggestions on a good alternative. I really like the Kahles 16i and may end up going that direction, but really want a FFP. NF NX8 is an option too, but I hate that they left the turrets exposed and read a bad review about the 2 MOA dot at high power that made me think a little bit about the reticle. I like the new Primary Arms Raptor, and may go that route too, but quality of glass is a biggy so I don’t want to skimp.
I liked my MK6 with the CMR-W. Only got rid of it because I needed the money. Only downside is the illumination flicker, that may or may not be an issue for you. I never used it during the day, so I did not care. I shot out to 500m with it, and the BDC worked pretty well. The wind holds helped a few times as well. The eyebox can be a bit tight for some, but it never bothered me.
For the price imo there is nothing better than the kahles k16i. MAYBE the new ATACR 1-8 but its larger/heavier and more money.
The Razor 1-6 and the Khales k16i have the largest fov and most forgiving eyebox. Glass is better on the Khales plus its lighter and smaller. Both are daylight bright however kahles has better retickrs in my opinion. Eyebox and fov to me are most important on a lpvo due to 1x being most used setting.
I like the mark 6 on a dmr type gun and Kahles for everything else. I’d like to try a swarovski z6, but specs look identical to the k16 but in a different housing/reticle. Now’s the time to buy a Mark 6 though; bottom seems to have fallen out of resale. Not uncommon to score a nice used one for $1200.
I have not played with any of the 1-8s other than CQBSS
The illum flicker in the mark 1-6 is not flicker, it only appears to do so if you move your eye around the eyebox. Makes it functionally much smaller than similarly priced SFPs.
It’s going on a BCM 16" ELW MCMR free float rail with a BCM lower, A5 buffer system and SSA trigger, so my Recce/DMR style rifle.
I’m kinda considering the Sig Tango 6 too, but yeah, the big eyebox for the Kahles is the reason I keep coming back to that as a leading option. Plus, that seems to be the #1 recommended scope, so it might be time to do it while I have the funds.
I’m about to buy an optic for a similar setup. I had it narrowed down to the Kahles and the Nightforce NX8, and have pretty much decided on the Nightforce.
I really like the Nightforce reticle (FFP) and the additional 2x at the top end is nice. The additional durability and better warranty also swayed me a little, especially at a slightly lower price.
I’m not a glass snob so while I’m sure the Kahles does have better glass (I haven’t had a chance to try it), that just isn’t my priority.
The NX8 seems to be getting a lot of talk about a tight eye box but using it at 1x was effortless for me and I couldn’t notice much of a difference between it and the Vortex Razor Gen II when trying them back to back. I can deal with it being a little tight at 8x but I really didn’t notice it too much there either.
I’m astonished that you have come to that conclusion, mine was the polar opposite of mine. The NX8 was like looking through a straw compared to the Khales and Razor Gen II. Not to mention the flicker that the MK6/8 has plagues the NX8 as well at higher mag. In my opinion by making it as small as they did and making FFP they shot themselves in the foot and sacrificed the 1x…which is what most people care about in an LPVO. They’re usually kept at 1x and then turned up to max for longer range stuff, which completely negates the need for FFP. BUT, by adding FFP it now has an incredibly tight eye box/fov. Jack of all trades and master of none (except size/weight).
In full disclosure I LOVE Nightforce products and use them on my work and personal rifles. I have been waiting for the NX8 for the past year and a half and was obviously disappointed. No way I could honestly recommend it over the K16i.
I didn’t get a chance to shoot either of them, only handle them mounted to fake guns at the NRA show, so now I’m thinking maybe I didn’t get a realistic impression. Reading that has me doubting myself again.
How is the durability of the Kahles? It is on the upper extreme of my budget so I really don’t want to have to deal with paying out of pocket to have something fixed if it goes down. I haven’t been able to find anything specific on their warranty other than that it isn’t as good as Vortex/Nightforce.
I did like the Razor, but really didn’t care for the reticle choices. Which reticle are you going tooth on the Kahles?
FFP in a 1-6x is not that important. I have trigger time behind both the Mark 6 and a Kahles (I own the Kahles), and the Kahles beats the VCOG, Mark 6 and the Razor 2 HD hands down. The SM-1 reticle will give you mil hold overs as well, and the illumination tops the others.
May I ask what gun you are putting this scope on? If you want a 1-8x, then the newer S&B 1-8x or Nightforce ATACR 1-8x34 might be worth a look if you are running a .308 gas gun and plan on shooting regularly out to 600-800 yards. I have my Kahles on my SCAR 17, but I only shoot it out to 300 yards where I live unfortunately.
I agree with the above assessment. Not sure what compelled Nightforce to make the NX8 the way it is. The Kahles and Razor are better options. If you want a 1-8x, get the ATACR.
I would love to get the ATACR but it’s way outside my budget. I just can’t justify dropping that kind of coin for something that is essentially a toy for me. If anybody feels like sponsoring an ATACR purchase for me I’ll happily accept and let you have naming rights to my first kid. Nobody? I didn’t think so.
I’m still leaning towards the NX8 because I think a jack of all trades optic is kinda what I’m looking for out of this rifle. I have other rifles I can grab for up close situations and I think the 8x will get me to the top of the range I’d ever use 5.56 for.
I have no doubt that the Kahles will beat it in many different categories, I just think I may notice/appreciate them because that isn’t really what my main focus will be. I’ve seen a few things that make me question the durability/longevity. It’s also the most expensive of the options I’m looking at and would be going over budget slightly, but not enough that I couldn’t make it work if it was my absolute favorite.
It just doesn’t give me the warm fuzzy feeling that I need to justify the cost.
I’d probably end up going with a Razor if they had a reticle I liked. The cost savings and durability would justify the weight for me. I just dislike all of the reticle options way too much to make that a real contender.
That said, if I end up not liking the NX8 on this rifle I can throw it on an SBR or a lightweight general purpose gun and upgrade in the future.
By no means is it s bad scope. Just that it is outperformed in EVERY category with the exception of length. Yes its FFP and yes its 8x, but those do more harm then good given its small size. Just check over on tos and snipershide. The negative reviews or complaints seem to come from folks who handled/shot one in person. All the glowing reviews seem to be from people who actually own them…so take that for what its worth.
A NF rep on Snipershide stated (and I paraphrase) that the NX8 should not be compared to the Razor… He stated that the NX8 was designed with form factor in mind and because of this could not complete with certain SFP 1-6’s in the fields of FOV, etc. The ATACR on the other hand was “built to perform.”
I have the Kahles, Razor 2, and Mark 6… for your use, Kahles all the way. Razor 2 is 90% of the scope at less cost, but weighs so much more and the zoom ring is very stiff. Kahles is also coming out with a mil-based reticle almost exactly like swaro’s BRT-I, which is almost perfect.
The pictures of the Nx8 above look like a lot of thought went into the reticle at least which has the german #4 type crossbars to allow some usability on 1x without illum.
