LEOSA Reform Act legislation in the 2018 died

General General Discussion
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Updated plan for 2019

LEOSA Reform Act legislation in the 2018 Congress died. Here is an update on plans for 2019:

U.S. Congressman Pushing Change To Block States From Banning Cops Carrying Guns
By Sandy Malone
December 23, 2018
Blue Lives Matter

U.S. Rep. Don Bacon plans to introduce important LEOSA amendments in the next Congress.

https://bacon.house.gov/media/press-releases/bacon-introduces-updated-legislation-improve-concealed-carry-legislation

Entitled group opposing concealed carry reciprocity
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Needs an add on so that states can’t have laws banning anyone from carrying concealed or open.

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When off duty, all Police officers should be required to follow the laws that apply to the general public. All of them. No matter what they are. Same for Federal Agents. They too should be required to follow the State and local laws for where they are when not on the clock.

That will will force a needed change.

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I agree. They should be required to follow the same laws as all other citizens. Kinda like I think, for instance, LE in CA should be limited to the same castrated firearms as all the other citizens of that state.

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Really? Quit posturing for the internet, use some common sense and think about it.

If you can’t come up with a couple of reasons why someone who is sent to volatile situations might ought to be allowed to carrying a firearm when they aren’t working, let me know I’ll help you out.

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I know of at least 2 states for sure plus a city where I can’t carry regular capacity magazines, so I am restricted the same as citizens. I do acknowledge I do have the right to carry due to my time spent as a cop in the USA under LEOSA.

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OK smart guy. I said OFF DUTY. And none of this BS about always on duty. And if that is your reasoning then all of the MIL should be exempt from the rules.

FYI, I don’t posture on the internet. Fact is fact. Deal with it and stop getting butthurt because just because you are a cop a d that doesn’t make you special in the least.

As a matter of fact if ON DUTY LEOs were required to do their job under the same laws that everyone else is required to follow it may force a real change in the laws.

All laws should be EQUAL AND FAIR to all, if you do not agree with that then you should not be an LEO.

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Doc just dropped a truth bomb. This is exactly how I feel.

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I heard this from a very smart man and wanted to share it here:

If you’re in fear of your citizens, you shouldn’t be the one protecting/arresting/serving them.

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I support allowing retired and off-duty military having access to the same fully automatic weapons and explosives they had access to on duty.

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So the Federal government has given me training, a weapon and ammunition to take a human life under circumstances not covered by the general population. Also the General Rules section of my Administrative General Orders states exactly that an officer is always on duty. So we are treated different in a way than the general population and held to a higher standard. No different than when you were in a hostile country your weapon was no further than arms reach at all times even when not outside the wire. We are not afraid of citizens, we swore an oath to protect. Why squabble over who is who when we should work on protecting everyone’s constitutional rights. David

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Yes, really. And not for one second do I believe LEO’s should be deprived of any tool nor would i want them to be…

But- NEITHER SHOULD ANYONE ELSE, LEO OR NOT!

I don’t believe in separate classes of citizens with separate rules to adhere to. It runs counter to the entire foundation and principle of Liberty.

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Let me start this by saying that it is my opinion that anyone should be able to carry anywhere in the country.
So when you disagree with what I’m about to say, refer to the above.
I consider myself a people just like anyone else. I have had heated discussions with cops from states that don’t allow concealed carry or standard capacity magazines that come across the border and buy 30 round mags and bring them home because they are cops.
BUT…
Because I live in a state that borders several states that CCW is illegal, and I have been a cop when you couldn’t carry anywhere, this law is important because a cop who travels into New Jersey to get gas, for example, gets stopped by some hot shot cop and they find a gun in his car and now he’s a felon and can no longer work because of a law that makes no sense and he can see his state just across the bridge.
I was stopped by NJSP several years ago before HR218. I badged the trooper and instead of acknowledging that I was a fellow officer, the trooper asked if I had a gun in the car.
Can you see my point of view?

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Absolutely I see your point of view. But- the law should be across the board. No separate classes of citizens and no separate rules for different classes of citizen.

Just because someone isn’t an LEO doesn’t mean that they don’t face the same career ending felony and BS that would be visited upon them, laid out in your scenario.

I’m on your side and hope that the law is changed and hope further that it changes for EVERYONE, not just LEO’s.

The biggest issue I have with anyone having a separate set of rules is that it instantly pits them against the other classes of citizens and vice versa- wether they want/like it or not.

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It’s called skin in the game.

A better country would be one where the perpetrators in the NJSP (plural) example got to do a stint in the pen for deprivation of rights under color of authority.

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Hey gents, happy new year!

The following contains by opinions and my understanding of state-level LE functions:

  1. If I’m not mistaken, most states require their certified LEOs to respond to the commission of a crime anywhere they are granted law enforcement powers. Also if I’m not mistaken, most states do not recognize LE powers from out-of-state LEOs, except in extenuating circumstances (e.g. natural disasters, terrorism, etc.). That removes the requirement aspect of their function as LEOs in another state. This is where LEOSA comes into play. If you are a state-certified LEO in any other state outside your own, you are, in effect, no different than any other concealed carrier (except in Hawaii, but that’s another story). I do agree that those who are expected and required to respond to potentially violent situations have the means necessary to do so in the safest fashion. And since LEOSA doesn’t assign powers or jurisdiction, I don’t see the problem in requiring out-of-state LEOs to follow state law.

Federal LEOs, of course are a little different. Their jurisdiction supersedes state boundaries, but only within the scope of their duties and according to the law. There is only one federal LE agency, of which I’m aware, that does not issue standard weapons to its sworn officers. For everyone else, they generally carry their issued sidearms or those approved by their agency. Since they have both jurisdiction and requirement (again, within the scope of their duties), LEOSA doesn’t even apply. For that other agency, however, LEOSA is the only law that does apply; since they are issued neither firearms nor badges. That agency’s scope of responsibility is so narrow, though, that the officers will most likely never be put in a situation where they will have to use their LE powers off-duty. Therefore, they should have to follow the same rules as everyone else.

  1. Despite what many think, LEOs are necessary. We don’t live in a perfect world where everyone follows the rules. LEOs are specifically trained to uphold and enforce the law, within legal guidelines. It would be great if every John Smith and Jane Doe were able to enforce the law, but they can’t. Why? If I were to post one statute on any board, or–God forbid–facebook, imagine how many interpretations of that law there would be. Everyone wants to read the law in their own way. That is why LEOs get training on how those laws are meant to be enforced. Yes, I understand the whole “safety/security vs liberty” thing, and I generally lean more toward the liberty side; so, it would be great if every citizen of this country took responsibility for his/her own safety/security, but they don’t. On top of that, LE doesn’t have the option of turning a blind eye, like everyone else.

Folks, I deeply respect pretty much everyone here. If I had to guess, I’d say I probably fall into the lower half of membership when it comes to training and/or experience. Those of us down here look up to you guys. Please, let’s keep it civil, and not take this stuff too personally.

Have a great night!

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I agree. I think I was a pretty good LEO, and I was a better than average trainer/instructor, which was my main career.

I also live in a Constitutional Carry State, which I fully support. I’m also not eligible to carry under LESO.

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I agree.

NYH1.

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I was going to reply with a more hash tone, but I tamped it back to ask a question…What is that needed change?

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Forcing the small percentage of officers who carry “all the time” and in this instance the even smaller percentage that carries when they travel, to have to worry about local and state bs isn’t going to force any needed change. I get your points, but a couple inconvenienced cops aren’t going to the the catalyst for all around better laws.