As a college student, I currently do not have the option of carrying a pistol (especially since I am 18 and live in the dorms) so I am looking to get some training in hand to hand and specifically the use of a knife for self defense. As far as pure hand to hand fighting goes I feel I’d be best served by going to one of the many martial arts schools here in the Denver area and attending regularly. Knife though appears to be another story.
So what this comes down to is two question.
What style, and specifically what school if you know of one in the Denver, CO area, would you recommend for practical hand to hand training?
Is there any reputable school or trainer withing driving distance of Denver that teaches knife self defense courses?
looking for a more stand up style if that helps with suggestions.
You should definitely look into Krav Maga if that’s what you want. No throwing people around or wrestling on the ground. Just simple and effective stuff. My trainer always emphasizes on staying on your feet, because the worst thing that could happen in a crowded place or against multiple aggressors is to go to the ground and have the s*it kicked out of you…
I have trained under Don Niam in Southern style Kung Fu (Hung fut) for years and would recommend it to anyone serious about self defense, but good luck finding an instructor in your area. Hung fut has great hand forms that are designed my the Shaolin monks for fighting in close quarters. It uses a lot of low kicks to the knees and legs. Stay away from any style of martial art that bases most of its training on taking people to ground submission and or uses a lot of high kicks. Going to the ground as a choice if not a good move in the real world. I would suggest getting some good open hands training before worrying about edged weapons training. A good boxing gym may also be a good place to start your training and a better choice than a karate or tae kwon do school. Here are a few links that might be of some interest to you. Sorry, nothing in your area. Maybe a move to Maryland?
I agree that most of my focus should be on unarmed but I’d like to get to some sort of class like shivworks IEK so I can just get some real basic training on it and then practice with some friends or something. I think thats going to be hard to do though.
I do have a little training in Kenpo. I know it may not be the best, especially when some of it was geared towards tournament fighting but people at the school I went to had a reputation for getting DQd for things like knees to the face because thats what we were taught and practiced in class. This was a couple years ago though and I’m no where near proficient.
Filipino martial arts (e.g. escrima, kali) are very practical.
Stick fighting (escrima) is very useful in non-permissive environments. A stick, cane, or improvised stick can be very stealthy and most folks never realize its potential as a weapon.
Excepting very tight quarters (e.g. elevator), if given the choice of stick or knife, I’d take the stick.
I think the advice to avoid any style that includes or emphasises ground work is making alot of assumptions. While its true that you don’t necessarily want to go to ground in a crowded area, that decision isn’t always yours. You should be comfortable both going to the ground and getting back up. You should also be comfortable fighting there until you have the opportunity to escape. For stand up krav maga or thai boxing is good. As for the knife, I would suggest shivworks material supplemented with any filipino blade work you can find.
Thanks again everyone. I think that for now, I am going start judo and krav maga. I probably won’t start either really until after the first of the year but I am going to go sit in on and potentially start the krav maga this week. I’ll look into picking up the shivworks videos for some knife “training” until I can find a style or instructor to help with that.
I’m still looking for specific instructors or schools in the Denver area, if anyone has a suggestion, let me know. I’m going to go to the one mentioned earlier in the thread hopefully on Monday.
Agreed. I did say “based most of their training on taking people to ground submission.” You should know how to fight from the ground, but it is not a wise choice to take it there on purpose. The area may not have been crowded when you went down, but the situation can change in a matter of seconds. In the real world you are more vulnerable on the ground than fighting upright. If you train for the take down 5 days a week that is what your brain will want you to do in a fight.
I see martial arts in a “good, better, best” frame of mind. I think that KM is in the “good” to “better” category. I believe the best thing they teach is an aggressiveness in execution.
What I’d recommend instead of or at least in addition to is some time in a wrestling based class. Weapons work (either in deploying and applying or in defending) is dependent upon the ability to control your opponent. You need to put in time working with a non-compliant partner. Judo has been mentioned, and offers some training in this arena (standing grappling). It also offers some time on the ground, which is also a reality in self-defense and weapons work.
You might also look into joining a wrestling club in your area.
As for Southnarc’s IEK; it totally changed the way I approached the knife. I was very opposed to change, and at first dismissed what I was being shown, and later looked for flaws in the approach. I was finally sold after being on both ends of the methodology. This was after about 12 years in Filipino martial arts. His approach is simple and direct. Defending it requires the type of skill I mentioned above.
This is a little OT but I thought it would be relevant to this discussion. I just took the Insights Training “defensive folding knife” class. It was only 10 hrs but it was a real eye opener on the use of a folder for self defense. I would recommend anyone take a class, even if it’s just for a day. The instructors showed us how effective a shorter blade can be for grappling type situations and how a longish blade, anything about about 3", is actually a liability in many cases.
They also cautioned against cool guy tactical knives, like karambits, on the grounds that they aren’t necessarily more effective and that they can make you look bad in court. For instance, if you have to use a knife, which is considered a use of deadly force, against someone choking (also deadly force) you a jury might actually see you as the aggressor because you pulled a knife. A prosecutor holding up a camoflaged Karambit looks a lot different than one holding up a Spyderco Leaf.
Anyway not trying to pass myself off a s a knife fighting expert, just passing on what I learned this weekend.
Krav is pretty good as far as self-defense, but if you also want to incorporate weapons training, Kali or other Phillipine martial arts are the way to go. Whether you are empty handed, have a blade, or a stick(impact weapon), the physical response to force is the same. So you wont have to learn a bunch of different moves to burn into your muscle memory. BTW, stay away from any school that focuses on tournament point stick-fighting. It is just as useless as as the empty hand garbage that is out there.
Just my .02
I’m in a Krav class now and we are doing knife techniques now and will be for the next couple of months. Classes are pretty good and I’ve learned a lot. So far what we have learned is all counter moves and attacks coinciding with those counters.
