So, I am kicking around the idea of sending a 590 off to Vang Comp, but I just can’t find a role for a tactical scattergun in my life with my multiple RDS/WML equipped pistols and carbines. But, maybe I am completely missing the picture here.
What role do you see the shotgun filling in 2023 these days? What niche does it cover that the carbine and pistol do not? What role does it fill for you?
I mean, outside of breaching or using one for bird hunting (i’m assuming you’re talking about a tactical shotgun), it’s hard to justify a shotgun as a go-to CQB weapon, when short barreled rifles are much better suited for the role in almost every way.
That being said, shotguns do a LOT of damage at CQB distances, and i sure as hell would hate to get shot with 00 buck or a 1oz slug at close range. I also think they’re a blast to shoot and fun in 3-gun comps. Not to mention the shotgun fighting scenes in the Terminal List and John Wick were pretty cool haha.
But at the end of the day, even though I have a tricked out Beretta 1301 tactical that I shoot alot, I still prefer my 8" suppressed 300BLK when i hear a bump in the night.
My Benelli M4 sits beside my bed every night.
They’re extremely versatile and can take down pretty much anything that might come after you.
Bird hunting
Deer hunting
Bear Hunting
Elk Hunting
Zombie hunting
Home defense
Hell, most criminals would run ascaret when I rack my M4!
Shotguns in my view have just as large a role today as 100 years ago.
Hunting birds. No different than any other year.
Defensive use in an area with large animals.
Familiarity, like older cops, someone who hunts or plays a lot of shotgun games but doesn’t care to train with a carbine.
In a ban state or as a hedge against a future ban.
putting 10" holes in soft targets at 20 feet? As useful as it ever was?
I’ve found shotguns (depending on exact shotgun) are most-likely 50 state “friendly” (aka legal) vs. AR/AK rifles.
This may or may not be an issue for folks who don’t travel with long guns or mostly stay within their own state where whatever they own is already legal.
This goes beyond mag capacity, as the entire AR/AK rifle, regardless of mag capacity may not be allowed in certain states.
Just a thought and won’t apply to everybody.
First of all, I’d weigh the decision to spend the money sending the shotgun off for work until I’ve used it a bit. No disrespect to Vang Systems intended, but aside from porting, pretty much any gun smith can take care of chambers, lengthening forcing cones, and back boring. Aside from that, flight control wads and their copies pattern pretty good out of most ‘martial’ shotguns with cyl or imp cyl bores. I have ported shotguns, and I’m meh about the concept for shotguns.
As far as what need the shotgun fills in 2023, same as in 2022, or every year since the advent of FC wads (IMO) - transmission of KE and multiple wound channels into a target. As someone mentioned, that gaping hole in the chest of an unarmed subject shot within 15 yards, or the instant stop and drop of a ten yard and in face shot.
I feel that the shotgun is the ideal hunker in place and wait for the bad guys to come to you. Although opinions will vary, I’m of the opinion that if I have to enter a room and engage multiple targets in a hurry, the shotgun is an advantage, not a hindrance because of it’s patterning characteristics.
Pistols and rifles have their places in home defense, but the shotgun is still a viable tool for the folks who care to learn the operation and feeding of the shotgun.
AR carbines and Glock 9mm’s are my “go to” defensive firearms, but I still train with AKs, revolvers and shotguns (both semi and pump). They are just another tool in the toolbox to me. One thing that is indisputable with a properly loaded shotgun is it’s incredible close range devastation.
In my neck of the woods the shotgun is the way to go,as they are not restricted or neutered the way the AR platform is. They are 50 state friendly.
A shotgun is just as useful as it ever was. Id say even more so with advancements in ammunition and good semi auto guns.
If Im out in the wilderness where I might encounter large dangerous animals, it gives me a gun that will take care of that while still being a very effective defensive tool against bad guys.
On the home defense/self defense front it is still the king of close range effectiveness. Ive never seen someone take a good COM hit with buckshot or slugs and still be a threat afterwards. I cant say the same thing with a carbine/rifle. I still use an AR as my preferred defensive weapon and believe it has multiple advantages over the shotgun. But that doesn’t take away the fact that a 12 gauge shotgun is a very effective defensive weapon.
Take a Symtac shotgun class. Rob Haught has some pretty convincing statistics for properly set shotguns with Federal FC 8 pellet 00 buck shot.
There are many instances of mil, LE, and civilian use of force cases with rifles that required 3-5 rounds or more to stop the threat. There are very few incidents with a shotgun that required more than one. You can put 8 pellets in a threat quicker than you can fire 8 rounds of 5.56. 1 and done is better than taking multiple shots for several reasons.
Versatility is another plus, with a side saddle or shell card you can have a couple slugs on board if you need some serious penetration.
A shotgun with a WML, a red dot, 6 rounds of 8 pellet 00 buck, and 5 more in a side saddle can be an optimal choice if you can run it. Multiple targets and transitions can be just as fast considering you’re putting 8 rounds on target with one trigger pull.
As long as think you will never miss a shot.
And a single 00 pellet does not equal a 5.56 wound channel.
Plus for most people the carbine is easier to shoot, while taking less training to get to and maintain reasonable proficiency.
I think it is an excellent choice for less experienced shooters. Which is the majority of gun owners these days. If my wife had to defend herself, I would want her to point that blaster and blast. I have a youth 20g 870 that makes a good wife shotty with 00 buck.
I have a Colt 10.5 by my bed but would never feel under gunned with my Benelli.
Its good to take one to the range and see what destruction it does from time to time. It’s impressive.
PB
Recent owner of 1301, did not have a ‘need’ but a want. They are fun as phuck to shoot. Should a ‘serious purpose’ arise my glock or AR is my first choice, but a SG at the bedside can be a formidable weapon as well. As previously mentioned, and an advantage I never considered, is that they are a good weapon to take on intestate road trips, as I don’t believe any states have any regulations regarding their use, including tyrannical shit holes like Ny /Nj/Ma/Ct.
I see people talk about 20ga for lower recoil but I’ve only seen 00 buck in 3in at higher velocity when I’ve looked. I think it kicks harder than low recoil 12ga. Is there some 4 buck that is lightly loaded? I admit I don’t pay much attention after I see 4 buck, as it’s under the the 1 buck recommended minimum.
The 20 ga buckshot I see is No 2 or No 3 buck. No 2 buckshot is .27", significantly larger and heavier than No 4 at .24". No 1 buck is .30".
Rio used to sell 20 ga “9 pellet 00 buckshot”, which was actually No 1 buckshot and now sell No 1 buckshot 20 Ga loads. I guess they realized everyone knows its not possible to fit 9 00 pellets in a 2.75" 20 ga shell. I liked the Rio to mess around with because it was sold in 25 rd boxes.
I think we get hung up on 00 or 1 buckshot because the larger buckshot performs much better at longer ranges. Thats not such a concern at HD ranges. My biggest issue with 20 Ga is not having the FC wad available.
Andy
Can take out doors, things on the other side of a doors, windshields, floors, some motor vehicles, deer, birds, cats, dogs.
An old lady told me a story when she was a kid on the far that would every day walk the fence line with an over under .22/.410, she would say the 22 is for the rabbit and the 410 for the bird she spooked.
Breaching… Everything else can be done better by a rifle or a pistol.
1 buck is minimum size for good barrier penetration. Good barrier penetration is also good against heavy bones.
I’ll agree it’s more important for a patrol car use, but don’t agree it’s not any concern for HD.
How many of those 20ga 2 buck loads are low recoil? Full power 20ga kicked harder than low recoil 12ga, it’s harder to find, and it’s not FC.