Actually, I think it is probably better suited for beginners but I admit I don’t know where it originated, who the target audience was or what else the instructor followed it up with. As to students understanding, that is up to the instructor(s) to determine and the reason I mentioned that it needs explaining.
Then again, if you’re an instructor and don’t like it, nobody says you have to use it. 
I see what f2s meant that these topics can cause ruffled feathers. Like I said, I believe the point of a saying is lost if it needs to be explained in such detail that not only is the meaning made clear but no negative implications are derived and retained by the student base. I believe in clear, concise and demonstrable instruction.Why use a saying that logically is incorrect and even in the common sense interpretation can be easily misleading without breaking it down and explaining the underlying reasons. Quoting you:
“I believe the point is don’t try to go so fast your fundamentals break down.”
That right there is a hundred times better than saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast.” Maybe throw in a demo at half speed (your half speed) and show the students what you mean by efficiency of motion, smoothness, solid fundamentals, or whatever point you are trying to make to your students.
But in any case, I respect a lot of instructors who still use this line. This issue is a drop in the bucket as far as instructor issues go as far as I’m concerned. To each their own and I want to be clear that I am not trying to be offensive, rude, or insulting at any level. My internet language isn’t always perfect so forgive me if this came across as harsh. I don’t have any strong emotions or anything tied into this discussion so please don’t take this as an attack.
Edit to add: I wasn’t very clear in my previous post about what I meant about exceptions to my clear, concise, and demonstrable rule of thumb. I wasn’t saying that I would teach this saying to advanced students as an exception, I don’t use this line at all. What I was trying to say is that at an advanced level, especially where tactics are concerned, and with advanced students, sometimes we have to teach concepts which aren’t by their nature clear-cut or concise. This is the material that if you present to beginners, they bombard you with “what-if” scenarios. The advanced student understands that the answer is “it depends” and they have enough background to place that knowledge or skill in the appropriate mental toolbox. I have a feeling that I am not being very clear here, but hopefully this makes sense.
Probably with few exceptions, the courses/students I taught weren’t as advanced as what you teach.
I wouldn’t assume that brother, I don’t want to come off as some know it all. Just some observations from my comparatively modest past experience. There are folks here who have tons more experience and knowledge than I do. I really feel that I come across as condescending when I type online. I apologize if I came across as such.
Believe it or not, you can actually do exercises to make your eyes see more quickly.
What are they?
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also on the F2S video. His gun barely moves. I have the same situation as the OP although I would not say it takes 1-2 seconds I am more in the category of the person that posted about the circle… when the front sight drops back below a known spot I fire the next shot.
but here’s my question. Back to the F2S video where the gun basically stays pretty level. I have worked on the proper grip and at times I have actually experienced the gun feeling and more importantly “looking” like it’s barely moving and the front sight just keeps dropping right back in the groove. It’s almost like bang, sight, bang, sight, bang, sight. Like the sewing machine analogy mentioned.
the problem is, I don’t know exactly what I was doing right and thus can’t do it all the time. I don’t know if it’s my eyes or my grip. I do notice lately that I see a lot more coming out of the barrel than I ever used to. Sparks and such. So I figure I’m blinking less.
Is there any one aspect of the thumbs forward grip that maybe is easy to do wrong that I accidentally get right sometimes? I know I’ve had a problem rolling my shoulders forward and when I just stand more normal and simply lift my arms up things go much better.
I just can’t figure why sometimes the gun seems to just sit perfectly almost like it doesn’t recoil. does this make any sense?
Heads up! I sent you a PM
Not in this case, certainly. It’s a natural hazard of any discussion that risks falling into a “Don’t say happy, say glad.” theme.
None of the verbal stuff really ever stands, if left by itself. Like Surf, I’ve taken to harping on the word “deliberate,” but I STILL have to define what I mean by adding a whole bunch of other trash to the front and back of it.
Segway-ing back into the HOW…given that slow-smooth/smooth-speed is valid at the foundation level, it stands to reason that beyond a certain point, slow is nothing but slow, and that there are times that shooting fast for the sole purpose of shooting fast if of benefit…provided that goals/metrics/whatever are set.
There’s variations, but for the purposes of practicing speed for the sake of trying to get faster, I hold to an 80% hits on a defined zone. In my case, it’s usually a paper plate (7.5"-9", depending upon which grocery store I hit that day) at no less than 7yds. Distance, size of target, from the ready, from the draw…pick something; doesn’t really matter, what’s important is the diagnostics of it.
If I have a tight, clustered group within my desired strike zone, I need to speed the hell up, because I’m not challenging myself enough.
If I have shots all over the target/backer, I’m probably not seeing what I need to see before pressing my shots…presuming I’m pressing, instead of being in such a hurry that I’m pimp-slapping the trigger…and need to slow the hell down IOT be effective.
If I have 80% of whatever string or total # of rounds fired within my desired strike zone, and if the rounds that missed are just leaking out the edges…I generally say within about an inch of it…I consider myself to be right at the edge of my speed envelope. If I go faster, I’m not in as complete of control of the weapon as I ought to be. If I go slower…well, that’s not so much bad as it is not meeting my goals, which is, in this case, getting faster.
This is not innovative; any instructor worth their salt knows this, practices it in some form, and has their students do it in some form. Any differences lie in the details, not the core, and in the fact that, while this can be done solo, having a competent instructor present may result in any technical flaws that DO exist being discovered and corrected.
Practice snapping your eyes to specific points that differ in distance. Snap your vision from the doorknob to the ceiling light to the light switch to the upper right corner of the doorway trim. Instead of looking a blur of spinning ceiling fan blades, pick one blade and follow it around and see a sharp image of it. Most of the time we just kinda scan around and take in stuff. You have to practice getting a laser sharp picture of very specific points.
When I practice shooting, for the first shot I try to get a hard focus on a specific point on the target then bring the focus back to the front sight. As I get even older my eyes don’t pull focus as fast as they used to but it really helps when I practice this.
Any blinking is bad for shooting. Double up ear pro and do lots of ball and dummy drills.
You have to figure out what you are doing right and wrong. Get a video camera and shoot video of yourself shooting. Do some of the no-target shoot-the-berm drills and experiment with your grip. Don’t think of controlling the gun and eliminating recoil. Think of managing the recoil. It doesn’t matter how high the front sight goes up, it’s more important to have the front sight come back down in the right place.
Too much tension can be as bad as being a limp noodle.
Gringop
Can you track where those shots are going?
If you aren’t doing anything consciously different, I bet that you are anticipating the shot.
I mostly work on focus shift while driving (I spend a lot of time driving, so I try to use that time for something productive).
Focus on speedometer, the number should be in sharp focus.
Snap vision to object in peripheral vision outside the vehicle.
My speedometer is within 3" of my pistol front sight, and objects outside the vehicle are pretty far away, forcing a drastic focus shift, are all slightly moving, and if you pick something like a speed limit sign when within 20 yards or so, you get a good changing focus during the travel.
f2s - I really like the driving focus shift idea. I am going to incorporate that. Thanks man.
tb-av - I’ve seen a lot of shooters experience good and bad strings/days. There can be a lot of reasons for this but inconsistent grip pressure is often the culprit. Consistent grip pressure is easy to preach but very difficult to master. I asked the OP what his front sight was doing and f2s is right in asking you the same question. Hard focus on the front sight and report back. And anticipation, as f2s suggested can certainly be the issue and/or a part of it. Setup some ball and dummy and see if you detect a flinch and report back. Oh and don’t just do it all at once. Throw in b&d at random every 30-45 min of shooting. Sometime the flinch developes well into a range session.
Out of all of the pistol quals, I frequently recommend Paul Howe’s pistol standards. I sincerely believe that they work all of your fundamentals. They aren’t super duper high speed or anything but if you can pass them, you have a solid foundation on which to build. The times are set to be passable with kit on so you can reduce some par times running them slick. The 5/1 string is where a passive stance and inconsistent grip pressure will mess you up (as well as not having a sight pic per shot fired). Try it if you get a chance.
Im a relatively new pistol shooter, about 1year, and I put 1500 to 2k shots downrange in a few months to confidently carry conceled. I have no professional training yet, but after reading advice on the web, watching some trainers online, and trying stuff out, this is how it worked out for me.
1 - get accurate. Dont even worry about speed until you are twice as accurate as you “need” to be. I figure at 25yds 8" is vitals, so I did accuracy only until I got consistent 4-5" groups at 25yds. Dry fire the shit out of your gun. If your gun moves when you dry fire, you need to do it more. If you twitch 1/10 times you dryfire, you need to do it more.
2-you should already have a good grip, but i relax for accuracy shots. for rapid shots, I grip the gun so tight Im almost on the verge of shaking. I keep my upper arms(shoulder to elbow) parallel to each other and flare out my elbows. this keeps recoil straight back and not up, and also utilises arms as shock absrbers. I keep lower back straight and hunch/roll shoulder foreward slightly so that the bore is inline with the top of my heart.
3-dont rush it at first. you need to learn to track your sights before focusing on speed. get a good grip/stance, and shoot one shot with a hard front sight focus, watch the sight go up and fall back into the rear sight notch. if it doesnt, adjust your grip accordingly until it does. Now shoot, watch the sight go up, then down, as soon as it falls in the rear sight notch, sqeeze off another shot. Doing this you will get much faster in a very short period of time. You’ll also be able to start the tigger pull on the fall and have the trigger break right when it gets where it needs to be.
4-now apply everything youve learned and make quick accurate shots on targets. Accuracy first, speed second. Before shooting you need to know what is acceptable accuracy. at 25yds, youll be shooting a lot slower than at 7yds.
I know i repeated some stuff others said, but just went with my train of thought. Again this is what I did and what worked for me, ymmv. I did get sidetract in my training doing stuff like tried too hard to be fast and just sucked. I learned elpresidente is a lot more difficult than it looks.
Also, if people contradict me, I may be doing something wrong. If “subject matter expert” is under their name, and they contradict me, I AM doing something wrong, so take my post for what its worth;). Hope this helps you out some.
MegademiC, sounds like you are doing it right. Good job.
Wish I had started out the same way.
MegademiC - I agree with f2s. I wish I had started out the same way too. But you are doing it right, in terms of technique and attitude. You’ll tweak your technique over time, as everyone who keeps an open mind will find ways to improve, but don’t loose the attitude you have right now. Good on you man.
Thanks for the support guys. If you know how to use it, the internet is a great tool, read up and experiment, and dont waste time on things that dont work. However, reading is useless if you dont practice. I dont think that can be overstated, as I “knew” what to do before I even bought my handgun. However actually doing it and getting good results takes a lot of time, ammo, and hard work. But its shooting so even “hard work” is fun.