Horror Story: M&P 10 and S&W Customer Service

Have you ever heard that its dangerous to buy a firearm with a proprietary design, because you are stuck relying on just one company for replacement parts? I’m here to tell you that is a very valid concern, particularly with Smith & Wesson products.

I bought an M&P 10 last year, intending to use it for hunting, as well as in the battle rifle/DMR role. I liked its light weight and longer barrel. When I first bought it, a member of another forum told me about a friend’s rifle, and showed me a picture showing how the stamped text on the skinny part of the barrel apparently imprinted itself somewhat inside the bore as well – he asked me if mine had any such issues. Upon inspection, I didn’t see anything like the stamp imprint, but I did notice an odd ring around the bore in one place. It looked to be about the same diameter and height as one of the lands of rifling, but it was simply a ring all around the bore in one spot, about midway between the gas block and the muzzle. I found it odd, but didn’t think anything of it because I had already fired the rifle, and it exhibited very acceptable accuracy and seemed to function OK.

Fast forward to last year’s Pecos Run 'n Gun… a 6 mile run through the desert in West Texas, with shooting stations along the way. I carried my M&P 10 for the event, along with my M&P .40 pistol. I was using Lake City 147 grain M80 ball for the event. The rifle shot great – I shot the best time on several of the rifle stages with it. Now a little context – this event occurred in the middle of the largest flood in living memory in that area, and there was some standing water to traverse. At one point in the course, I crossed some thigh deep water, even falling into a waist-deep hole at one point. After clearing the water, I retracted the charging handle and shook the rifle muzzle-down, just as a precaution against having any water retained in the bore (I was carrying the rifle slung across my chest in a “low ready” type position, and it did go partly under water during the crossing). When I got to the next stage, which involved a not-particularly-difficult 200 yard rifle shot, I fired a shot that I called good when it broke, but which did not score a hit. I also had a failure-to-feed malfunction. I cleared the malf and fired again… again calling the shot good but getting no hit, and having the same malf. The RO said that I was hitting way in front of the target, like 20 yards out. I disregarded this because I thought if it was a miss, it was a very close one and he must be mistaken. I fired another shot I called good… but this time I saw the mud fly in front of me from the bullet’s impact, way lower than I was aiming, and again had the malf. Now I knew something was wrong, and began inspecting the rifle. Loose scope mount? Nope, it’s tight. I then noticed the barrel. To my horror, it was split down the middle, with the split centered about halfway between the gas block and muzzle, and showing daylight all the way through. Incredibly, neither myself nor the RO noticed the split when it happened. Well, needless to say, that event was ruined, and I was unable to complete the rest of the stages. Other runners saw the rifle and thought that I must have plugged the barrel with mud. however, I never dropped the rifle or pushed the muzzle into the ground (it would have had to go in pretty far to not only plug up the flash hider but also the muzzle itself)… the worst I did was crawl under some barbed wire with the rifle cradled in front of me, getting a little muddy, and going through the water with it. Upon reflection, I thought about the strange ring in the rifle’s bore, and realized that the barrel had split right at that point.

Now on to dealing with S&W’s customer service. I called and was eventually able to reach a CS rep, who e-mailed me a return shipping label, and I sent the rifle off. About 2 months later, I received a letter stating that they determined that the split barrel was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they were declining to fix it under warranty. They did, however, offer to sell me a replacement rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose name was on the letter, and asked how much a new barrel for the rifle would cost. I was shocked when he told me that they do not currently sell barrels separately for the M&P 10. I asked how much they would charge me to re-barrel the rifle if I paid for the work. He said he would have to check with management to see if this was even a possibility. After not hearing from anyone in a few weeks, I called, left messages, and finally heard back from one of their senior engineers who told me that his supervisor told him that they cannot replace just the barrel assembly on a rifle. I confirmed that they did not sell M&P 10 barrels. I said, somewhat incredulously, “so you won’t warranty it, you won’t fix it, and you won’t sell me the parts to fix it myself? I basically have an $1100 paperweight?” He seemed somewhat embarrassed to have to give me this news. He said that he had no control over what management’s policies were, and that if it were up to him, he would replace the barrel for a small fee. He said he was going to return the rifle to me.

So that’s my situation. I have a broken rifle with well over $1000 tied up in it, with no way to either have it fixed, or to fix it myself. I suppose I put myself in that situation, by buying a proprietary design from a company that doesn’t stand behind their products. Well, good job Smith & Wesson. You fooled me once. One thing is for sure though… I am not going to make that mistake again. Oh, and I’m going to be carrying a Glock from now on.

Man that’s tough. Not just the incident, but getting stuck.

Did you tell them you’d no longer buy or support their products? Again, might not matter to them, but worth a try, maybe. IF you can get them on the phone again.

Sadly, this isn’t the first such story like this I’ve heard from folks like yourself and their M&Ps.

Tough lesson to learn unfortunately. For this reason I have been very selective to whom I give my hard earned dollars. Hopefully , you might find someone that could adapt a barrel for you.

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What did you tell them happened? I would press the issue again as a warranty service, Smith is known to have good CS? This is troubling indeed.

With all of the quality DPMS pattern stuff out there now days, (Rainier, Mega, etc.) probably the best way to get an affordable .308 is to build one. All .308 ARs are proprietary. DPMS pattern guns have the most parts availability.

I would at minimum send an email to the Customer Service, if not actually write a written letter as well. Explaining the experience you had. I would bet they would take care of you. They are normally pretty good CS from what I understand.

But they already had it. Call and pitch a fit until they fix it.

I’m saying now and to include in the email all the above experiences with what he was told and what he feels about the situation.

That is strange, I called S&W back in August/September about a malformed extractor on an M&P 10. The CS rep told me he would have to check and would call back. They called me back, took my address over the phone and sent the replacement extractor.

An email will give you a paper trail at least. I would send an email. If you want to get a little more attention, try to google and find out who the execs/upper management folks are at S&W and CC the email to them as well.

CS is always part of my decision process. Springfield Armory is awesome, this will definitely influence any future decisions to buy an S&W.

My experience with SW customer service has been excellent.

Root cause aside, you should be able to get it fixed for replacement cost of the barrel, and maybe an assembly fee. A car has proprietary parts, that like “my alternator fried, so I need to buy a new car…”.

[QUOTE=jerrysimons;2065598
With all of the quality DPMS pattern stuff out there now days, (Rainier, Mega, etc.) probably the best way to get an affordable .308 is to build one. All .308 ARs are proprietary. DPMS pattern guns have the most parts availability.[/QUOTE]

And, if you build, how do you determine what is compatible with what? Is the barrel extension compatible with the bolt you have and with the upper you have? Etc. Maybe it’s simpler than the threads I’ve read indicate but I haven’t built for that reason even though I would prefer to build.

Rainier Arms selling Mega as well as their own branded stuff along with Aero Precision with their offerings are making it very simple to find all of the parts you need in a one stop shop. Just look for the DPMS patterned stuff, all of the branded stuff will obviously work together if you don’t want to mix and match. You need matching DPMS style receivers, DPMS/LR308 barrel, DPMS bcg, DPMS high rails, and either AR10 buffer tube w/ AR 15 buffers or AR 15 buffer tube w/ AR .308 short buffers. That’s it, everything else is regular AR 15 stuff for unless in product excepted.

I like the M&P 10, it is the only fully ambi .308 AR. I am pushing my left handed family in this direction but this thread is concerning.
Also, no 16" barrel??

Well, you could use the lower and build an LR-308 pattern upper to put on it.

When looking at the M&P 10, I always wondered about that (what looks like to me) pencil-thin barrel. Considering the OP’s incident, might that be a weak spot in the rifle design? Assuming the circumstances true, I just don’t see a barrel splitting like that, especially a heavier barrel.

OP, hope it works out for you.

By that logic, wouldn’t all pencil barrels be suspect?

OP,
I wonder why S&W would replace so many barrels free of charge for the stamp issues but not something this severe?
Do you have any pics you could share with us so we could get a better idea about what happened? Especially if the ring between the gas block and muzzle is visible still. It seems really unlikely to me that the rifle would fire and have acceptable accuracy then have something suddenly happen to the bore or barrel on its own.

Thank you!

There’s nothing inherently wrong with barrels that thin… It is actually thicker than an M-14 or FAL barrel, and this isn’t an issue with those rifles. I actually bought the M&P because it was the closest I could find to an M-14 or FAL barrel in an AR platform.

In any case, one possible fix is to buy some other brand barrel and take both barrels to a gunsmith to install the S&W extension onto the new barrel and headspace it to my bolt… but that would involve me sinking hundreds more into this POS just to have some franken-.308 that I could almost certainly not sell for any kind of amount to justify the expenditure. The M&P 10s only go for $999 right now new.

I think I’ll just sell my parts for whatever I can get on the 'nets, take my loss, get rid of all my S&W shit, and never make the mistake of dealing with them again. Oh, and tell this story on every forum I’m on, and any time anyone asks about a S&W product.

It sounds ridiculous I know, yet at is exactly what I’ve now been told by at least 3 different people at S&W.

This story has convinced me about a purchase.

I was wondering about the S&W but had concerns about the lack of parts availability, just like the Ruger.

I’m sorry for the crummy problems you’ve had but appreciate your sharing the story.

I am surprised to hear about SWs shitty customer service.

Post photos and keep spreading the word about your experience in dealing with them. There is no reason why they cant sell you a barrel. Complete nonsene