I have been lurking on the board for a bit. I initially looked at the Larue Predatar but the wait time discouraged that. Can you 3 gun shooters reccomend a good entry level rifle that has pretty much everything already on it. My local 3 gun matches have beginners shooting the Stag 3G, S&W ar15 TS, and a few DPMS rifles. Can you guys throw out some ideas of available rifles ? Thanks !!!
Here we go!
There are a whole host of good 3 gun rifles out there: Lancer, Larue, Noveske, Stag, Firebird, and JP. I (and many others) prefer JPs but they’re all good. That Stag 3G is a really nice rifle for the $$$ but if you were looking at Larues then you can afford anything else out there.
Brand name is not important. You can 3 gun with just about any AR as long as 1) it works 2) it is halfway accurate and 3) it holds a zero.
Generally, the dedicated 3 gun AR has a good trigger, a free float tube, and a comp. Most prefer ARs with 18-20 barrels and rifle length gas systems. So my final advice would be a JP15.
The Stag 3g is a really nice set up for the money. If you already have an AR type rifle I would recommend that you start with that. One can spend a lot of money very quickly on guns and equipment for 3gun before they even know if it is something they really want to participate in. If you have some friends that are already shooting 3gun then maybe you can squad with them and share a rifle in order to see how you like it and what does and does not work for you.
I like a 16" mid-gas, and bought a Noveske “Combat Carbine” upper for my 3-gun purpose. That’s a 16" stainless Recce barrel with the VTAC Extreme tube. I run it on a rifle length lower with a Geissele National Match trigger adjusted to eliminate all over-travel and maintain a short reset. I was running a Titan comp, but I swapped it out for a Battle Comp. I don’t notice much difference in muzzle control, but I couldn’t stand the concussion blast of the Titan, especially proned out sideways.
I considered 18" rifle gas, but again, I didn’t want a 100% game gun, so what I have is essentially a Recce. As long as you can shoot and transition well, any decent rifle will suffice. However, I do think a good accurized stainless barrel is of real benefit, since many matches will include some shots requiring a certain amount of precision. I also would also choose a mid or intermediate-length gas system over a carbine system for a smoother shooting gun.
For a similar price to the PredatAR, another option would be a BCM SS410 16" mid-gas complete upper for around $900 (currently in stock from BCM), a BCM lower for about $450 from Grant at G and R Tactical (in stock) and a Geissele Super 3-gun trigger or trigger of your choice for $200 - $250.
Or … if you want to just get the whole thing in a nice package for a few bills more (ok, five bills more), buy the 16" Noveske Shooting Team rifle, which is in stock with the muzzle device of your choice!
If you want an 18", Noveske’s got you covered there, too.
If you can shoot pretty well with a rifle, it’s the shotgun reloading which will be your most challenging time factor, not the specific model of rifle.
Here’s another thread that is pretty informative:
Yeah I went with a 16" Middy set up with a comp and 1-4x optic. I didn’t want to go with an all out race gun set up and prefer to instead run a good general purpose set up that will still allow me to be competitive.
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What kind of distances will you have to shoot? Don’t leave yourself gun rich and optic poor.
I went with an 18inch rifle-length gas upper with a comp from JP. Had them include the adjustable gas and Low-Mass-Operating-System (LMOS) and that is one sweeeeeet shooting rifle. Put it on a DPMS lower with a VLTOR rifle length stock and a G-Trigger. So soft you can really focus on trigger control, shot follow-thru and target acquisition.
Optic all depends on what distance you are shooting and what ‘class’ of competition you want to do.
If you already have an AR, just shoot that until you figure out what direction you want to go and where you put your priorities.
If you want to be a top contender in area/regional matches, I would say to ignore anyone that isn’t competing at at least that level (which would put Mr Neal at the top of the list). However, if 3-gunning is just a hobby/proficiency evaluation for “serious” application of the weapon(s), I recommend using a “real” carbine with precision ammo and possibly swapping optics.
In my experience in the 3-gun world, most tinkering, fixes and nashing of teeth is related to the shotgun, and getting it to work with the loads that work best for 3-gun.
I shoot my local matches (only goes out to about 75 yards, though some targets are sort of tight shots depending on stage) with a 6920, 1-4 optic, and “decent” ammo. I save “match” ammo for those that get out to 200+. I shoot against guys with everything from dedicated 3-gun rigs to bottom barrel blasters, and I have yet to be beaten on a stage due to any fault other than my own. Conversely, my inappropriately set-up shotgun consistently adds lots of time due to stoppages and bare minimum support great.
Just my perspective, as a guy that uses competition for personal skill evaluation and technique validation with guns that are optimally suited for a slightly different application.
ETA: the only gun that I own that is only set-up for gaming is my shotgun. Poorly.
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At this point I am looking pretty hard at the Stag 3G…
That’s good advice. You can be quite competitive in 3 gun with your standard duty/tactical/“real world” rifle and pistol. Less so with the standard duty/tactical/“real world” shotgun which tends to have inadequate magazine capacity for 3 gun. Luckily though, the shotgun is usually the cheapest of the 3 to make competitive. You can have the finest AR ever forged by JP/Noveske/Larue working together but if your shotgun holds 5 rounds, has either a cylinder bore or Van Comp choke, and ghost ring sights and you can’t load it, you’re still going to lose.
One thing that I’ve noticed is that the dedicated 3 gun rifle and dedicated tactical rifle are getting closer and closer to being the same thing. The dedicated 3 gun rifle just tends to have a longer barrel and a comp.
I know, I don’t want to end up with a dedicated comp gun. Would a rookie 3 gunner do ok with a Smith and Wesson MP TS? My LGS has one NIB with magpul sights for $1100 out the door. He said a few beginners have used them in 3 gun.
I would like to second F2S in that the best plan would be to use your current AR if you already have one.
My 3gun rifles have been an evolution throughout the past few years. I have several 16", a Noveske 18" on a Lancer lower, and I have had a lot of fun with 11.5" sbrs in matches.
My only requirements for a 3gun rifle are a great trigger, a freefloat rail/tube, and good glass that fits the range of the stages. Everything else is just details.
All my rifles could pull double duty for game or serious social work, which serves as a reminder as to why I participate in this sport.
I guess my point is that you don’t know what you don’t know. Get out there and see what is going on, then change rifle as necessary. A pro can shoot well with subpar equipment, but a $10,000 rifle will not make you a pro.
Of course the S&W M&P would do well for the budding (or even experienced)3 gunner as long 1) it works 2) it is halfway accurate and 3) it holds a zero. You certainly don’t need a comp to compete in 3 gun.
The only thing that I think a dedicated 3 gunner really needs is a good trigger. The shots in many 3 gun matches tend to be a lot more difficult than those encountered in most training classes. It is a lot easier to hit a 300 yard MGM plate at 300 yards with a 3.5 lbs crisp trigger than with a 6-7 lbs rough trigger. I used to think that good triggers did not make that much of a difference on the closer/more coarse shots but Mike Pannone of all people convinced me otherwise. I would not run out and buy one for your 1st match but if you get into it, a good trigger is the single biggest thing that you can do to your rifle to improve your shooting.
Stag 3G is the best I have seen for the price.
Pat
The Stag Arms 3G is hands down the best bang for the buck on entry level 3 gun specific rifles.
Bought a S&W MP 15 TS. Multi purpose , long sight radius rifle…