Help fix my wobble

I have been reading all the helpful advice here for quite some time and it has all helped me in many way.

Currently I am trying what Surf has posted videos about and that is shooting at longer distances. I think I understand the basic concepts but have a problem with just generally wobbling around.

This target is from yesterday. 25 yards - 30 shots. I know the two on the lower left I jerked the gun. I saw what I did immediately upon doing it. I know Ball and Dummy practice will help me with that. So that’s two shots I can get back inside the rings.

The arc of hits around the right side were mostly from the first half of the shots I would say. I was able to pull things in a bit.

these shots were just standard shooting. Not a minute per shot nor rapid fire, just casual shooting.

I was earlier shooting at 1" dots and it was forcing me to constrict my “target” but I only actually hit the dot once. My shots did get smaller though than when I aimed at a larger target.

But I really feel that I wobble too much and can’t figure how to cure it. Is there anything I can do to help with this?

ETA: Also does anyone see a pattern of about a 40deg diagonal of shots in the black and then another similar diagonal in the right hand white? Does that suggest anything specific I am doing wrong? It looks suspicious to me but I have no idea what it might mean.

First, keeping all the shots in the scoring ring on a B16 at 25 ain’t too shabby. I’m not really seeing anything consistent enough to really diagnose and agree that your arc of movement is the biggest culprit here.

What gun are you shooting, which hand, what sights, indoors or out, and how are your eyes? Do you feel like you are getting a consistent aiming point?

As far as minimizing your arc of movement I think spending a lot of time aiming at something helps develop some of those stabilizing muscles. The Army marksmanship unit has a manual that goes pretty in depth on all of this. http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_Un_Pistol_Train_Guide.pdf

Gun: Kimber Gold Match - original

Right Hand: Combat grip, thumbs forward, per Jarrett, Surf and others.

Sights: Kimber target without night dot. like these. http://store.kimberamerica.com/Products/tabid/67/CategoryID/7/ProductID/1060/Default.aspx

Eyes: 57 old, severely left eye dominant. Two eyes open always. Contacts. A little bit of double image sometimes ( target ) but I can tell the real black circle from the slightly offset ghost image. this is caused by my contacts reacting to atmosphere. Front sight looks good though. I would say it ranges from clear to very sharp depending on light and my concentration thereon.

Location: Outdoors ( overcast that day )

Aiming Point: I am not sure I know exactly what you want here. I can’t seem to get the gun to settle to a single small spot ( 10 ring ). I wobble over that black and into the white but would like to wobble over say the 8 ring max deviation.

I don’t have a real problem with the front and rear sights moving independently if that is what you mean. IOW, I have a good sight alignment that wobbles over that 5 ring area. I can concentrate and try to get it smaller but it’s a real chore.

when I see people hitting 14" steel at 50 and 75 yards, I can’t understand how they are holding so steady as to not wobble off it. With that in mind, if I try to break the short as I wobble across the black, I will likely jerk the gun.

I wish I could video what I see. I can’t figure how people video their sight picture. I would also love to see what others are seeing when they hit a steel plate 75 yards away.

surf mentions in one of his videos to not think about distance but to think of it like aiming at a golf ball. Well I can wobble on a golf ball up close but the golf ball becomes a green pea at distance. this thought process still works for though. I cal tell the aim small mindset works I just can’t figure how these people hold steady on a green pea. It’s not like I have the shakes or am under pressure ( other than the mental pressure I force on myself to hit the target ). So I’m thinking I must be missing some concept or physical aspect. I don’t know if it’s breathing or what’s going on.

I’ll read over that link and see what I can learn. Thanks!

You are never going to eliminate the wobble when shooting a handgun. When shooting at that distance only put pressure on the trigger when your sights pass over your acceptable target area. The second the sights are out of the acceptable area maintain pressure on the trigger, but dont add any more. Once the sights drift back into the acceptable area, add more pressure. Continue to do this until you break the shot.

If you are taking your time; it should take you several seconds to fire each shot. As you become more comfortable with this; you’ll see your times start to decrease.

tb-av, standing off hand, at what you consider a standard rate of fire, your target looks pretty darn good on a 9.5" or so target. I don’t see much from the target that looks like any type of definite pattern.

Reducing your arc of movement or wobble area, is something that definitely requires a steady hand and good practice. Your breathing at this point is critical as oxygenation of the blood has a large effect on tremor, muscle fatigue and your eyes playing tricks on you. Be sure you have a good pattern or rhythm for your breath control.

I may also do a few things when shooting for precision which helps lessen or reduce the wobble area. I may be less concerned with recoil management and I may use techniques that cause less muscular tension in an attempt to reduce tremor. I may go with a “softer grip” on the pistol. I might also use a more “upright” stance, with shoulders slightly less rolled forward. Combine a proper breathing technique and this may help reduce your arc of movement. Lets face it though some people have a steadier hand. If you feel fatigue, stop, put the weapon in a low ready, and breathe.

Another thing I might suggest that you try is shooting with closing your non-dominant eye. I tend do this when shooting for precision, depending. I might also “bracket” my sights. Meaning that I may be using the edges of the sights and perhaps the edges of the rings on your target to come up with a consistent aim point. It can be difficult for older eyes to attempt to see and maintain a small dot as the POA. The thing with this technique is that your groups may indeed shrink, but then you need to be able to correctly adjust and then understand your POI when doing this.

I will add that it is very good if you can start “calling” your shots. It is good that you immediately understand that you may have “flinched” or “jerked” rounds low, but it is also good if you can do similar with your normal shots fired. At least have a good estimation from your sights on target as to where the shot broke in relation to your arc of movement. So you might say that one broke low or left etc…

I know I also say to keep a consistent trigger pull from start to finish, however the more skilled a shooter becomes, we really should be eliminating the pre-travel and “taking out the slack” in the trigger and that becomes our starting point for our trigger pull. Now admittedly that becomes less of an issue or a more fine tuned issue when talking about perhaps a 1911 trigger and how that trigger is tuned. Attempting to make the gun go bang in relation to your arc of movement is almost always a bad thing which can have very negative results as you understand. Besides the tendency to induce a jerk of the trigger, there is still a delay between what the eyes see, the brain processing that information and telling our trigger finger to pull the trigger. Minimizing the movement is the key.

I know that I suggest shooting at distance on a regular basis, as it makes shooting up close seem simple, however I do suggest that a shooter get a good mastery of precision from starting up close. You can more easily maintain a sight picture on a finer point of aim up close. While we should still maintain good follow through, “calling” shots and noticing our arc of movement or how effective we are at reducing it is often easier up close. Once those groups get tight up close start moving back 5, 7, 10, 15, 20, 25 etc…Also shooting smaller groups makes calling shots easier and target analysis easier as you have less clutter, especially if you have changed things that you are doing from one string of fire to another. Marking shots is less practical up close as you start getting ragged holes etc…

Hope this helps!

Thanks guys, that gives me some more to think about.

The way my trigger is setup is that there is about 1/8" take up. Then about 1/8" to break. So I can’t put much pressure. It’s almost like an on/off switch after the take up.

Don’t wait too long to break the shot.

If you can’t break the shot within 3-5 seconds of the gun being brought up, abort the shot, take a break, then do it again.

The longer you hold it up after you initially settle in, the more movement you’ll have.

Do what you can to minimize it

  • accept that it isn’t as large as it appears
  • concentrate on sight alignment and trigger press

Hey guys, just wanted to say thanks again. I have not had a chance to really do any hard training on this but have seen some minor improvement.

What I have gotten things down to is 10 shots all of which will be in the 5 ring or better ( usually 6 or better actually ). IOW, no wild shots off target. I have also gotten things into groups of groups so to speak. So unlike the target above with a bunch of wild dots. I have some near center of black, then maybe a group near upper edge of black/white border… but here’s my new question…

I have noticed that I can indeed hold my wobble more steady, thus the groups of groups BUT when I do the target is so blurry that the black/white blur changes to what is akin to a gray fog.

My shots feel better when I get the gray fog and my front sight is very focused but I loose track of the “small” in “aim small / miss small”

In summary
A. Wobble = out of focus gray/white, say like a heavy snow storm
B. Less wobble ( perceived anyway ) = heavy fog over target and I loose track of center X ( the “small” ).

Of A or B, which scenario should I work towards making better as I’m thinking one is wrong. In fact I think B is probably wrong but for some reason shooting and controlling pistol seems more right.

If both A and B are natural part of learning process I’ll just keep hammering away but I hate to start practicing bad habits because I’m really starting to see things come together.

Any thoughts on this? … and thanks again for all that have taken time to offer their input in this thread and other threads. I can’t over state to you all how much I appreciate it.