I used an early production P7M8 for a duty gun for about three years. I loved the gun and it shot very well. It is well described above except for one design flaw that scared the heck out of me and I quit carrying it.
I read about this problem on other threads and dismissed it until it actually happened to me on the range. I personally know one other P7M8 shooter that had the same thing happen to him.
As part of our qualification we had to perform malfunction drills a couple of times a year. When grasping the slide to perform a tap, rack, bang drill I apparently hit the disassembly button at the same time and ended up with the slide in my left hand and the pistol frame in my right. My acquaintance was shooting in an IPSC match, had a malfunction, and ended up with a disassembled pistol in his hands. The other threads I mentioned suggested shortening the disassembly button to avoid this problem.
I loved the pistol and shot well with it but didn’t feel confident after that. I ended up going back to the 1911 for duty.
I had a P7 M13 in 1988 Loved the gun untill the first extended range session when I burnt the hell out of my Middle and trigger finger, I saw it as a design flaw and sold the gun for what I paid for it. Kinda wishing I’d kept it because it’s appreciated to over double what I gave for it. :mad:
I would not consider it a design flaw either. It’s simply one of the unique trade-offs of its particular design, like any other pistol. It is only a factor in extended shooting sessions, which only the most ambitious of us push it to that limit, definitely not the average lawman or armed civilian. It can do almost everything that a defensive pistol is required to do, if not better.
Heat build up is an inconvenience in one’s training regimen. I work around it. If you must shoot one pistol non-stop for whatever reason, it’s not a good choice. I own two or more of my favorite pistols anyway, so the P7 is no bother to me.
I consider the P7M8 a spoiler. If you’ve never shot one, then don’t, because once you do there is no going back. It is one of the finest shooting weapons available. It’s not particularly corrosion resistant, nor is it cheap or have great capacity, but for putting accurate shots on target at the speed of light, there are none better, imo.
It is an accurate shooting gun, compact, feels great in the hands. It has a crisp trigger and shoots fantastically. I found for things like shooting plates I always did much better with the P-7 than I did with many other handguns, Glock included.
But in my experience I found the P-7 to be prone to breakage and not great at feeding a variety of ammo.
First, I found neither of mine would function reliably with the Winchester 127 grain +P+ or the 147 grain. It seems the shape of these rounds cause problems. I have spoken to some other owners who have not experienced those problems. With my two guns it seemed that if the round deviated from a roundish shape there were problems. I also experienced problems with Winchester +P+ 115 grain JHP. However, I have fired something like 300 rounds of rounds of Speer +P 124 grain Gold Dots without a single problem.
In the course of 2000-3000 rounds fired over 17 years I had the gun break twice. The first time in the course of shooting shomething broke so that the gun no longer cocked when the grips were squeezed.
The second time it started failing to detonate random rounds of factory ammo. If I unsqueezed the sqeezcocker and resqueezed it would then fire the rounds. The gun was always cleaned after shooting.
In both situations the gun was repaired by the factory in a reasonable period of time. I have had nothing but great interactions with HK.
My big concern would be as the years go on H&K might not have spare parts or people exerienced in working on P7s.
Also, as had been pointed out, it does have a unique manual of arms that requires practice. The gun does get hot but this only seems to be an issue with classes that fire a high number of rounds over a short period of time. I ran one as my handgun through Crucible without it becoming unmanagablly hot.
I had one of the latest p7m8 models, put a whole new meaning to the word BBQ gun!. I had to order it without ever getting to handle one and once I got it I did not care for it. Its a neat gun and makes a good “collection piece” but for usage I prefer my P30 if were are just talking HK handguns.
That said I still find myself looking at them again from time to time. Had a hard chromed one at the gunshop a few weeks ago for $1025. Had a hard time leaving it there.
I have had a P7m13 for years. It is a nice weapon. As others have stated it is accuarte and the m13, with its butt heavy-ness, needs a rock solid holster. Heat on long strings of fire is an issue, but for concelled carry I think the P7m8 has a lot of pluses for someone that is willing to spend time learning its unique manual of arms. I say buy it. I don’t think that you will be sorry.
Own both, and the differences are minimal; that said, I probably prefer the rarely-seen early (protruding) model. The change was made largely because of concerns that the magazine could inadvertently be ejected (while seated in a cruiser, for example). This may or may not have been a particularly valid issue, and in any event there is a world of difference between a police/duty holster and the typical CCW raked design. I’ve never had a problem.
The protruding release offers a very positive actuation and has a tactile advantage, which aids in more rapid reloads. The butt is more contoured, and the grips are slightly smaller, following the lines of the frame. This can be felt in the hand, and makes the early models quite comfortable to hold, but is of little real consequence.
The flush release is obviously larger, and offers more purchase area. It works very well, and is only marginally less tactile in my experience. Functionally, there is no difference; I’m simply talking about the subjective component, in that the protruding release almost functions as an “extended mag release” would on another pistol. The grips on the flush release models (which comprise most of the later P7s used in Polizei service) are longer and designed to protect the release from inadvertent activation. It’s a slightly less elegant, but extremely effective solution.
The size and “feel” differences are hardly worth mentioning, and in terms of carry profile, firing, manual of arms and care/maintenance, these two P7 variants are absolutely identical.
Ok, so let’s say I can free up possibly up to $2000 for a handgun purchase. I would only consider spending a majority of that on a P7 variant. I’m not considering buying a P30L and 5000 rounds of ammo…
Which P7 would I want to look for? I am fond of the M13, is it worth the price over the M8? I know they are much more rare. Would I have an easier time hunting down the “perfect” M8 or would I want to stop at a not quite as perfect M13 but buy it because it’s an M13?
This WILL need to be something I can recover my money and make a profit on IF I decide to sell it in a few years. I would not like to, but to justify the purchase now, I’d like to be able to see going rates much higher than I’d pay now.
Where should I go and what should I look for? What can I expect, what do I stay away from?
I’m going to stay away from plum slides, missing boxes, or excess wear or even a scratch. I will also skip anything with that foul milling mark.
Is there something specific I would definitely want to find, or at least keep an eye out for that will tell me I’ve found a sweet gun, even if the price isn’t so sweet?
Thanks!
ETA: How about finding an M13 with great internals and bad finish wear or scratches and then sending it for hard chroming? What will that do to the value? I would imagine to a true H&K collector, it wouldn’t be great but I would think that likewise, anyone interested in one in the future when they are even more scarce would still enjoy purchasing one with such a nice HC job as the one posted up above by VA Roadking,right?
What is the problem with the plum slides? I’ve seen them and they don’t look like any kind of a problem. It’s just a slightly different tint than the frame, but I think it had to do with the heat treat or something.
I think that P7 ownership assumes that the slide will have some plumbing. It comes with the territory. Some more than others. If you are opposed to any degree of plumbing, the P7 is likely not for you. I’ve seen very few that don’t have some plum tint. It absolutely is a factor of the quality of the steel and the hardening process. I find beauty in the plumbing knowing that it is an indicator of how quality the product is as opposed to cheaper guns.
Not true. I have two that appear to maybe be unfired and they both have plum slides. One more so than the other, but it’s not a problem. It’s not use that makes the slide a very slight plum color. Like sigmunsauer said, I think it has to do with the bluing process and the very hard steel in the slides.
When I look at the two I have that are slightly plum, I never think it looks cheesy, it still looks like a high quality pistol. These are both flush-release P7s. My older, protruding release P7s don’t have a plum tint to the slides. Don’t know why - maybe a change in the bluing process or hardness, who knows?
I’m not saying you should get one if you don’t like them, I’m just saying there’s nothing wrong with it. Personal preference is another thing - and completely valid.
No kidding. I always take a couple of other pistols with me when I shoot a P7.
I’ve heard the M8 is better in that regard, because of the plastic piece in the trigger guard, but I’ve never shot an M8.
I never wanted the mag release on the M8. I’ve read of unintentional mag drops, both online and from a former M8 carrier. I also felt like the front of the M8 mags would chew up mag pouches as they came out with it’s protrusion.
The one I shot had the heat shield, I think. What really got me was that you can’t rest your trigger finger anywhere on the pistol with out getting second degree burns.
A novelty gun in my opinion, but a damn beautiful one. I couldn’t find pictures, but I remember seeing a Nill gripped Bruce Grey long slide model that made me drool endlessly.
Yep - I’ve seen that one on the Internet, somewhere. Now, talk about one slick looking gun. That thing should show up in a movie.
Yeah, I like P7s, but it is more of a novelty to me, now. I liked them more in the 90s. I carried a BHP for years and the P7 was a NICE compact option at the time. I couldn’t believe how easy it was to hit with. (You just couldn’t practice for a long time with it.) It has some peculiarities, but I knew what they were and it was quite acceptable.
Today, I carry a G19. I’m going to sell a couple of my P7s, which is something I never thought I would do.
Who knows, though? Next year, I could fall in love with them again…
If by “novelty” y’all mean that the P7 is arguably the fastest defensive pistol ever manufactured, then I guess, yes. The fact that it heats up quickly is a minor concession. It’s certainly annoying and an inconvenience during extended firing sessions, but in all other respects this pistol is truly superior to other conventional designs. I’ve shot darn near everything and few pistols (if any) can truly rival the P7’s rare combination of speed, accuracy, and reliability, especially in such a relatively compact package. It’s a revolutionary pistol that each man has to evaluate the worth of its capabilities against its considerable price for himself.
