Who owns an H&K P7?
I’m seriously considering buying a P7M8 next month.
If you own one, tell me about it.
To me it is more “cool” than greater function. That said it is very cool, they are well made and accurate pistols. They have a nice fit in your hand even with the front strap cocker. It is a gun I play with more than anything. But after all I am a 1911 nut.
Here is a couple pics…
Don’t have one but HAD an M8 for some time. (a qualified opinion!)
I really liked mine but it was a novelty for me, as I cannot CCW here in LA County. It was also the 3rd gun in my safe that was no longer being produced or imported (225, 228, P7) and I sorta worried about the cost and ease of long term upkeep. A buddy made an offer I couldn’t refuse.
I do miss it a bit. It is built like a 210- very tough and very tight tolerances. Mine was very accurate and very fast.
If you are thinking about it, I’d say go for it. They are unique and quiet cool, IMO.
I’m not much for the 9mm, but if I could have only one 9mm…this would likely be it.
I have two of them - one a hard chromed ‘88 Chantilly (below). Both are uber accurate, well balanced and high quality builds…that they ain’t buildin’ any more…
Getcha one…
Well made and very accurate. Easy to carry (if you are used to carrying 1911 style pistols). I recently took a handgun course to see how this platform would perform and found the following negatives:
-after 3+ mags of rapid fire the trigger guard gets real hot (I had burns on my middle finger)
-middle finger can become tender after many rounds of contact with the trigger guard (some may have experienced this on Ar’s w/o a gapper)
-squeeze cocker became difficult to manipulate after a few hundred rounds
Solid overbuilt 9mm. I did not find the weight to be a factor. Great range as gun and amazingly accurate for its size.
I carried one for 7 years…
Wait, didn’t we already have this discussion?? :rolleyes:
Buy the damn thing.
Just got my back from HK customer service, so I can reflect on both pistol and current state of HK’s customer support.
I am sure you’ve found already what’s considered pros and cons of this system. BTW, I don’t consider low capacity and heavy weight as cons.
I’ve owned mine since 2004 and I have about 8K rounds through it. It was flawless for 7200 rounds; after that, malfunctions and parts failure started to occur and I’ll touch on it later.
Mine went through 1.5 of LAV’s classes without any issues. It is a ridiculously fast pistol; by far the fastest pistol I know to reload from slide lock. Truly ambidextrous and probably the easiest to manipulate one-handed. There are many other positive things about it.
My take on negatives:
- Overheating. Anything but slow low volume fire requires gloves.
- Lack of local expertise. These pistols, while not infrequent, are not well known by gunsmiths. You are left with internet or HK CS as your resources. My pistol developed cycling problems, and there is basically one answer that you are going to hear is this: “Dirty gas chamber”. The fact that gun went for 7200 rounds non-stop with the same maintenance routine gets ignored.
- HK customer service - in my opinion, still sucks. They are not easy to get ahold of, although, in all fairness, my last two attempts to contact them were fine; Linc, the guy who handles the calls, seemed responsive and helpful. I did send pistol to them - you pay for shipping - and it came back with the diagnosis of …“dirty chamber”. Next range trip - pistol became completely inoperable. No, they wouldn’t pay for shipping back to them even though the pistol was just in their hands and they missed something. When it came back today, it came back with new barrel due to gas port erosion, new piston due to wear [how the hell did they miss it first time, unless these parts were replaced just to make it up to me?], and two new springs. I am very disappointed that I had to spend $140 on shipping to get it done right.
- Parts are tough to find. I had FP bushing break, and I couldn’t find one anywhere. Getting one from HK CS took exactly one month (this is a part that takes 10 seconds to install, btw).
- Trigger has long reset.
- Last point could be questionable. There are quite a few holster makers who offer gear for P7M8, but I don’t think many know this platform well. I have two leather holsters from two different really-big-name makers. One took one day to break, and works marvelously. Second one never loosened to appropriate fit after one month of plastic bags and parchment paper break-in.
My two cents, please adjust for inflation.
Roadking- that gun is just sexy as hell. 
I’ve owned the P7, P7M8, P7M13 and P7M10 variants over the years, and strongly favor the design, even today. The truth is that 1911s and P7s are the only handguns that I currently have any desire to own.
The P7s reputation for quality, speed and innovation is well-known, so I’ll dispense with the usual commercial on those points. What I will say is that I strongly favor the original P7 and P7M8 form factors. The former is perhaps the greatest CCW arm ever devised, but the latter is a much better choice for hard use or class purposes, as heating will be much less of an issue, and magazine changes will be faster and more intuitive.
The problem, if indeed there is a problem, is that some runs of the P7M8 contain parts that seem to be more prone to breakage than others. The most relevant of these is the firing pin bushing, just as YVK reported. You can likely gather some additional intel on which production years are likely to be affected on the Park Cities Tactical boards, but in general the rule of thumb is that the older the pistol, the safer the bet.
I would buy another P7M8 without hesitation, and now that they are out of production, they are certainly not going to be getting any easier to find.
Chief
I have a P7 PSP. My only HK pistol. It is a great conceal carry piece.
Pros: Fast, Accurate, Reliable. Built to last a lifetime.
Cons: Can’t do prolong training or shooting (It gets so hot it BBQ’s your hand) and If parts break they are expensive and hard to find as are accessories.
FWIW I really like the HK P7 but find the G19 a much more practical gun in this class of pistols.
Hey Chief, what’s your opinion on the P7M13? I saw one at a gun store a the other day and was contemplating buying it if its still there.
RH,
I owned an M13 for some 15 years, and would pick up another if the price was right. I sold mine to fund a Wilson Stealth 1911 about 8 years ago, and in the meantime, M13 prices went off the deep end.
The M13 brings all of the considerable advantages of the P7 system into play, and features one of the most reliable high capacity magazines ever designed for an autoloader. Yes, those magazines are expensive, and somewhat hard to find, but they are truly an engineering work of art. The M13 is exceptionally well-made, durable, and an engineering feat in it’s own right.
P7s have a strange way of breeding in one’s safe, and few owners seem to stop at just one. I was no different, and oddly enough, I think that what caused me to stray from the M13 was the purchase of my first M8. I’ve got medium-sized hands, and the trim lines of the M8 really made the M13 feel blocky by comparison; so much so, that I stopped carrying the M13 in favor of the M8. Eventually, I stopped carrying the M8 in favor of the original P7 form factor, so I have to add the disclaimer that I actually prefer the thinnest, most compact variant to the exclusion of all others.
There isn’t a thing in the world wrong with the M13, and they are not at all trouble-prone; that said, I think that you need relatively large mitts to find it especially comfortable. If you’re running it in a class or a competition, you can expect astonishing – and I mean astonishing – speed, but you’ll probably want to wear gloves if you’re planning on firing more than a couple of boxes of ammo in a single session. I’ve never found the heat issue to be especially problematic, but then, it was not my practice to regularly fire extended strings in rapid succession.
Chief
A couple of thoughts: I carried and competed with a P7 for over a decade. Have owned over 10 P7s for most of that time and easily have 100K of rounds thru them. I still own multiple 13s etc.
M13’s are running about 1800.00 and 8’s are in the 1200-1300 range. If the gun will be for fun or carry, (not competition) pick up one of the PSP (heel release) that are coming in from Germany in the 550 to 700 range. These guns are police trade ins and marked by HK - A, B and C condition. The As look almost unfired. And, yes there are thousands more P7s with heel releases coming in when the market absorbs the first batch.
The heel release guns are slightly smaller and don’t have the heat shield (no biggee).
Also keep in the mind the market for any P7 is very strong so if you don’t overpay too much there really is no financial downside to trying one and not liking it.
jon
A friend of mine collects P7s, I believe he has 11 or 12 of them at this point including a 25th anniversary gun H&K gave him as a gift complete with his signature engraved on it.
Personally, while I appreciate the size of the gun and some of the ergonomics, it has enough drawbacks that it’s hard to justify as a serious carry weapon:
[ul][li] The heat buildup has been mentioned repeatedly and bears mentioning again. It’s severe if you want to practice rapid fire drills. The buddy I mentioned above brought his P7 to a Blackwater class we attended years ago … he actually had to bring three P7M8’s. He would shoot one for a drill or two, then rotate it with one of the others, which he kept in a cooler with some ice packs. It was the only way to shoot that many rounds in a day for days on end without injuring himself.
[/li][li] The guns are very butt-heavy, so holster selection can be tricky. Some of the smaller custom guys who actually understand how different guns require different holsters can give you what you need.
[/li][li] The trigger reset on every P7 I’ve handled has been longer than necessary for a single action gun.
[/li][li] The manual of arms is unique and requires dedicated training to master. More than a few people have squeezed the trigger simultaneous to squeezing the cocker and set off a round unintentionally.
[/li][li] If you want to use one as a daily carry weapon, you really need to have at least two if not three in your inventory to handle periods of parts breakage, etc. even if you’re not worried about the heat buildup during practice sessions. If the P7 breaks – and eventually it will, like any gun – you’ll be hard pressed to get it fixed and back into service quickly.[/ul]
[/li]
The P7 is so accurate in large part due to its fixed barrel. There is no question, they’re phenomenally accurate guns.
For the cost, size, and weight it’s hard to justify compared to many of the newer guns on the market. But I must admit, if not for the heat issue, I probably would have carried one at various times in the past.
I just want to throw a voice of dissent with p7fl and Army Chief. This is not to get into argument, but for the sake of informative discussion.
I’ve looked and played with PSPs and tried to like the heel release system. I couldn’t. I think that it loses some of the biggest benefits of this platform - lightning-fast magazine exchanges and reloads, and one-handed manipulations. I believe that these benefits is just as [if not more so] important with carry pistols as it is with competition. Unless you choose not to carry a spare magazine at all.
With PSP, you need two hands just to remove the mag from the pistol - one can see how this may inhibit one-handed work.
I’ve heard people say that they can reload heel-released PSP just as fast as P7M8. I guess everything is possible with practice; Jerry Miculek reloads revolver faster than most people reload pistols. M8 is just very easy to reload fast.
You also need to research an availability of spare mags. I know that M8’s are available, albeit very expensive. I don’t know about PSP mags.
PS. After re-reading Army Chief’s and p7fl’s posts, it is evident that the point of disagreement is not whether M8 is faster to reload than PSP. I see that this fact is acknowledged in both of their posts, directly or indirectly. I guess that the point of contention is whether these speed increments are worth the extra-cost for carry purposes.
Owned several M8’s and M13’s.
You know, they are a great little gun, very concealable, very safe and very accurate.
But for the money … crikey, that’s almost four S&W M&P’s. Or a brand new top-shelf carbine.
And, as stated in numerous places, they do get uncomfortably hot.
I owned a P7 for about a year. It was accurate, heavy, and to my dissapointment jammed 3x in the first 500 rounds - something my glock 9mms haven’t done. Given the greater weight than a glock 19, an in my sample of 1 poorer liability, I sold it. In fairness to it, I think they may need more perfectionistic application of lube than I’m used to. Oh, almost forgot. It is frustrating that if anything breaks you’re dealing with a pistol that is no longer manufactured and is hard to find spare parts for. That sucks. In my opinion, if you want a SA 9mm, think BHP.
I have been a P7 owner since they were first produced. Carried one as a duty weapon and think the gun is excellent for a concealed firearm.
Having owned the PSP and then the M8, I think the latter improves reload speed and this gun shaves your times in half.
The heat is a distraction if your running hard but hopefully this does not mirror real life in your world.
Then there is the unbelievable trigger and accuracy which is a major factor to consider. The guns are great, right out of the box and reliable as long as you practice being used to the squeeze cocker from the holster.
Good luck.
The P7M8 is by far the fastest and smoothest firing pistol I’ve ever run.
It has some drawbacks, but many will make them out to be more than they practically are.
I’d argue that there isn’t a faster gun. Period.
Tim
There is no dissent, really. I’ve reached the point where I can reload a heel-catch P7 with what I consider to be more than adequate speed, but there is no way that it is ever going to be as fast as an M model P7.
Where our opinions might differ slightly is whether or not a lightning fast reload is of paramount importance in a CCW situation. My first CCW priority is simply to have a gun. After that, I want to make sure it is of sufficient caliber to do the job. Third, I’m concerned about accuracy and my ability to shoot it well. (Maybe I’ve got two and three reversed, but you get the general idea.)
Somewhere around fourth place, I begin to be concerned with having a fresh mag on me and the ability to reload quickly, should that ever become necessary. The way I see it, if I’m in a situation where it takes more than 3-5 rounds to deal with the threat, then I’ve probably got bigger problems than the extra half-second it is going to take me to run a fresh mag up the tunnel. I don’t say this to negate your point at all, but if I find myself in an extended fight, I’m probably going to be reloading from behind some kind of cover, anyway – and wishing I had brought an AR.
Admittedly, what follows is only my opinion, but what I feel I’ve gained with the P7 (non-M) is a more positive mag lock-up that is less likely to be accidentally activated in a CCW role, less snag potential, a noticeably thinner profile, and a slightly smaller overall form factor; all of which rate high on my particular list of CCW priorities.
When I want a full-power conventional CCW capability, I’m still going to opt for a 1911, but as a replacement for a smaller, handier weapon, the P7 variant that Americans somewhat inaccurately refer to as the PSP is still awfully hard to beat. In my pre-P7 years, I often carried a SIG P230 for this purpose, and the P7 shines in this role.
One double-tap, though: Todd mentions that these pistols are butt-heavy, and while I think it would probably be more accurate to observe that they simply have very short and light slides/barrels, he is absolutely right about the criticality of proper holster selection. If you do choose to carry a P7 of whatever flavor, make sure you’ve invested in quality leather designed specifically for that model.
Chief