Its been publicly stated(and factually supported) by LAV that Glocks are not inherently accurate pistols when compared to much of its competition. However, there are thousands of departments and tactical teams across the planet that issue Glocks as service weapons. Some are just fans of the weapons reliability and simplicity. But then again some are national level CT teams who are in need of the utmost in combat accuracy(GSG9 for example)
My question is this, do you believe its possible to tune a glock to match the accuracy of pistols like HK or the 1911 platform? Surely if so many Glocks are issued worldwide then they must have at least acceptable accuracy, I know mine does. But when compared to pistols like the 1911, what do you think a tuned glock could be capable of? What changes would YOU make?
Just my opinion but knowledgable shooters aren’t buying Glocks b/c they want a hyper accurate pistol. Those same people are buying one based on acceptable combat accuracy and outstanding reliabilty and simplicity of maintanence.
It does what it do just fine and milling the end of the barrel fit an O-ring or using an oversized barrel to be fit, pinching the slide or oversizing the tabs in the frame -> all would be like droping a blown 454 into a Yugo.
In general people make too much about accuracy out of a handgun and not enough about reliability.
I dont disagree with you, but cant you have both outstanding reliability and excellent accuracy? Of course the answer is yes. There is a gentleman on this board who is attempting to “break” his HK45. Last I checked he hadnt had a single malfunction after thousands of rounds fired. He also mentioned that Ken Hackathorn and LAV were raving about its accuracy at the low light class.
With so many aftermarket parts available today for the glock, I truly believe that its possible to tune one to the point that its at least as accurate and reliable as the HK45. Caspian slides, match barrels with supported chambers, excellent sight choices, and a variety of trigger mods mean the Glock can be made into a much better pistol. Im just curious to see what others think. Thanks for the reply!
I have had a lot of trigger time on Glocks, HK’s, Sig’s and 1911’s. All are acceptable with ‘combat’ accuracy IMHO. Generally speaking when a weapon is tuned for extreme accuracy it tends to give up some of it’s reliability/ease of maintence. A hyper accurate 1911 (I’ve owned two) are a little more fussy with maint. and reliability (a ‘tuned’ Glock may be as well). I’m not sure there is any black and white answer to be had here at all. I started to delve a little deeper into this but I’m afraid there would be so many points and counter points (along with personal favorites) that I would be better served bouncing my head off a wall
Personally I view handguns as last ditch life perservers and list reliability at the top of the list and acceptable accuracy a notch or two down. This may not be much help with your quest but there it is.
If you took 100 Glocks and 100 of something else – let’s say P2000’s – and shot each of them from a Ransom Rest, the “something else” gun would almost certainly have the better average accuracy. But you’d certainly have some very accurate Glocks out of the 100, and some less accurate P2000’s (or whatver) out of their 100.
There are materiel, design, and QC reasons why Glocks don’t tend to score top marks in the accuracy department. Given their worldwide popularity, it’s apparently not hurting their sales efforts. Enough of their guns are accurate enough of the time with enough available ammunition that they get by quite well.
Also remember that most people (as well as militaries, departments/agencies, and gunzines) measure accuracy at 25yd (or 25m). Because this is substantially farther than the “typical” handgun fighting distance, the likely real world difference in accuracy will be much less apparent or meaningful. A gun that shoots 1" at 25 yd isn’t really going to do much for you accuracy-wise at bad breath distances. Compared to a gun that tops out at 4"/25yd accuracy, you’re looking at a difference of less than half an inch radial difference at 7yd. In other words, while it shoots nicer groups, it’s not going to put your shots closer to where you’re aiming under stress at close range.
Having said that, I certainly prefer a more accurate gun to a less accurate one. The old saw that “I can’t shoot as accurate as the gun” is bullshit. The errors you induce on group size are additive. No matter how accurate the gun, the shooter still creates a certain amount of dispersion. No matter how accurate the shooter, the gun creates a certain amount of dispersion.
I have found Glocks to be accurate firearms. The 21 in particular in my former department could be counted on to give 2 to 3 inch groups at 25 yards. The 9mms seem to be close to as good and the 40’s seem to be 4 inches guns at 25 yards. As for Glocks the highest praise I can give them is if I could not carry a custom 1911 my second choice is a Glock 17. In my opinion it beats all the competition as an overall issue sidearm with the exception of a custon 1911.
Pat
I mostly agree, but most users aren’t going to be able to shoot any handgun to it’s full potential.
I hear it almost on a daily basis in the gun business. It sounds so funny coming from people new to guns and shooting who’ll say “I shot my friends Glock and it isn’t accurate”, then I ask “what is accurate?”. Most can’t hit a pie plate at 7yds with 17 rounds in the gun…
My definitions so take it for what it’s worth: users = gun owners who shoots 200 rounds or less per year. hobbyists = gun owners who shoot 200 rounds to 1K rounds per year. shooters = gun owners/enthusiasts who shoots several thousand rounds per year. These are typically people who’ll you’ll see taking training courses and some are competition shooters. Many of these people will be able to shoot most handguns to 90% or more of a handguns accuracy potential.
In the beginning, I had HK USP .45 and USP ,45 Compact. In my personal testimony, I thought Glock had much better trigger that HK. I am pretty well shooter in the law enforcement career and am one the firearm instructors in the department. In law enforcement field, not that many cops are gun guys or great shooters.
I don’t think the accuracy difference is gonna suffer that much in LEO use.
In general speaking, I’d rather carry more ammo less accurate gun that accurate gun with less ammo.
I’ve personally seen Larry Vickers AI hit a reduced C zone steel silhouette at 100+ yards with a stock Glock 19 one handed.
I wouldn’t worry about accuracy from a Glock, and I wouldn’t start putting a bunch of aftermarket stuff in one to try to make it more accurate, I’d invest the money in the ammo it takes to get to that level of proficency.
What type of accuracy are we talking about? 2" group @ 25 meters? If a Glock is half as accurate, say closer to 4", what does that really mean for the average shooter? At that distance it’s more than capable of knocking down 8" plates or making a head shot. I mean that’s nothing to sneeze at.
If you’re a competitor I can see it being a concern, but on the street, the notion that you need a gun capable of shooting sub-2" groups is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
The only firearm I’ve ever purchased that was “inherently” accurate was a Sig P220. Virtually every other firearm, including the 1911, needs work to be made so. This isn’t “inherent” accuracy.
It should be noted that the AK-47 isn’t an “inherently” accurate rifle, but remains brutally effective at its job.
My instructor used a stock G-17 with a Heinie rear sight and stood 10 yds from the target and said “I’m going to put a round on the X”.
He proceeded, with robotic accuracy, to press the trigger and put a hole at the X’s intersection.
I realized at that moment a O.K. shooter won’t get anything more out of a pistol, but a great shooter can wring every bit of accuracy out of even a stock glock.
Glocks are not accurate? I hear the complete opposite from a guy at my work that used to shot world matches. The guy that won second in the world that year had a glock with just a trigger job.
Thanks for the input fellas, all great answers. My glock certainly seems to be more accurate than I am at this point in time. Ive made some changes internally and added some stippling and meprolights, but have not changed the barrel or slide in any way(yet). Even so, I know my Glock(19) is capable of AT LEAST 4 inch groups at 25 yards. That is certainly good enough for in a carry or duty gun.
Glocks relative lack of accuracy has to do with the guns design. Next time you have a Glock in hand take your thumb and push down on the barrel hood. You will find that even with an after market barrel it will move significantly. As long as the barrel is capable of moving during full lock up or can lock up in a different position the gun won’t ever come close to reaching its full accuracy potential. Try the same thing with a good 1911 and you will notice that the barrel will have zero play.
I suppose it is all academic because 99% of the people out there cannot out shoot the inherent accuracy in a Glock. You hear lots of people claiming to be able to print 1 inch groups at 25 yards but I haven’t met many that can do it with someone watching. Most Glocks with a good after market barrel will get you into the 2-3 inch range at 25 yards. A good 1911 will be an inch or less at the same distance.
I just tried this on my G19 and G34, neither with aftermarket barrels. I could detect no movement like you describe.
As long as the barrel is capable of moving during full lock up or can lock up in a different position the gun won’t ever come close to reaching its full accuracy potential. Try the same thing with a good 1911 and you will notice that the barrel will have zero play.
1911s have barrel bushings, not really a fair comparison.
A good 1911 will be an inch or less at the same distance.
Damn good shooting has as much to do with that as the 1911.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the 1911 and have a combat custom, but I can buy 4 Glocks for what I paid. Differences in accuracy have more to do with my limitations than the firearms’.
i have been shooting glocks since the middle 80s. and folks tend to be “general” about them a bit too much.
my experience with them— glock 31 aftermarket barrel very accurate. the 357sig can do 2inches at 25m. glock 22 with glock barrel 4-1/2 inch 25m with wolf-silver bear but can hit the 3inch and slightly under with better ammo. the g17s much like the glock-20s as best as i can tell.
i think it depends on the barrel of the pistol and the ammo. they can be very accurate but off the shelf they are accurate enough for general use.
as all ways it is the skill of the user that is the trump card.
No disagreement whatsoever. But we’re talking about two different things here.
The gun will be responsible for a certain amount of dispersion.
The ammo will be responsible for a certain amount of dispersion.
The shooter will be responsible for a certain amount of dispersion.
Those three are additive … each one is part of the equation that determines where your bullet lands.
Regardless of how accurate or inaccurate the ammo & shooter may be, the gun plays a role in the size group you get.
What you’re seeing with the guy who can’t shoot worth a damn is someone whose “shooter dispersion” is so huge, the inherent accuracy of the pistol and ammo is only fractionally important.
I know from personal experience that there are things I can do with a gun that delivers 1" groups at 25yd under slow bullseye conditions that I cannot do with a gun that delivers 5" groups.
Glocks use the same barrel block locking system first developed by SIG for the P220. It has the potential to deliver outstanding repeatable and durable accuracy without the need for a bushing or hand fitting. I’ve shot many sub-1" groups (25yd 5-shot groups from a sand bag or delta rest) from SIGs and M&Ps, as well as from a Barsto barreled Beretta 92G (my “LTT 1” gun). The Beretta uses yet another locking mechanism.
Three comments to this post:
[ol]
[li] 357 SIG tends to be the most accurate common LE caliber in most platforms. The high pressure, high velocity round tends to benefit from a variety of factors. The gun stays locked longer (because of the higher pressure) and the bullet leaves the barrel sooner (because of the higher velocity) which gives you the best possible accuracy.[/li][li] Glocks can certainly be very accurate with a good aftermarket barrel. Just about any gun’s accuracy can be improved by a tighter fitting barrel. However, there are potential pitfalls to taking that approach.[/li][*] Your post demonstrates that different people have different ideas about what “accurate” means. A gun that shoots 4-1/2" groups at 25m, to me, is completely unacceptable.[/ol]
