While doing some research I came across the above (rather dated) thread. It details a test that Larry Vickers did on some handguns.
The G21 is referred to as a “dog” and the worst gun that Glock makes.
Never having owned or even fired a G21, how accurate is this assessment? I was actually thinking about looking at getting a G21 sometime in the future (if it turns out to fit me), but if an expert such as Vickers thinks its a POS then that’s enough to make me reconsider.
Well, unless you routinely pour buckets of sand over your sidearm, I wouldn’t sweat it.
I look at Glock .45’s as coming in three varieties:
Regular 21: great if you have hands like Shaq
21SF: better. I wouldn’t be surprsied if this replaces the regular 21 in time.
GAP: Best (for me). Ballistics equal to regular .45ACP, but +P ACP trumps the GAP, so if that’s important to you, stick with the ACP. Ammo more difficult to find locally but readily available through mailorder houses. Any decent SD ACP load is replicated within the GAP line (HST, GDHP, etc.)
I have owned a Glock 21C for a little over a year now and carried it daily on duty since August when our policy was altered to allow the carry of personally owned pistols. During that time I have fired between 1500 and 2000 rounds and if I recall correctly, have experienced one, maybe two malfunctions. Each of which I am not convinced were not shooter error. Have used quality ammunition since I purchased the pistol and am comfortable staking my life on its’ durability.
I can’t speak to every G21 out there, but my experience has been positive. Since July I’ve been carrying a 21SF I’ve got just over 3K of Wolf and Blazer through it and carry it everyday.
Go S&W M&P. It’s alot nicer gun and they are accurate. I wouldn’t give you a plug nickel for all the Glocks there are. My b-i-l had two 40s let go on him. One with a reload and one with factory ammo.
These types of tests get a lot of attention, but are generally meaningless for 99.99% of the folks contemplating getting one. I live on a farm, maybe I should run one through a combine and report back if it still works, or more likely, if I ever find all the pieces. Would that mean anything?
I suggest you go to a gun shop (or friend), and try one for yourself. I was old school and did not think much of the plastic gun back in the 80s, but when I tried one I loved it and continue to use on to this day.
It is not about what works for others, but what works for you.
I’ve had my Glock 21 since 1991. I’ve put thousands of rounds through it without a problem. I carried it everyday while on duty and off duty. It never failed me. The only time it stovepiped, was when I let a friend of mine shoot it, but that was due to a limp wrist. I’m no longer on the job, but I still carry it a lot during winter months. Everyone I know that has a G-21 hasn’t had a problem either. Like Jmart says, unless you plan to dump buckets of sand in it, you shouldn’t have a problem. If you have small hands, the G-21 wouldn’t be the gun for you. The G-21SF has a slimmer profile for smaller hands. The G-37 which fires the 45 GAP would be another alternative, but ammo is harder to find. If you are interested in the G-21 because it’s a Glock, take the time to look at other 45’s. You may find something else that fits you better. Comfort and how it points naturally in your hands is important. I love the Glock, but I have other 45’s that I carry.
Anchorage PD issues the G21 and the officers I’ve trained with from that department seem to be fine with the weapons. At least one had his grip worked on by Robar. Their main concern was having a weapon that can run without any lube. (It gets kind of chilly in Alaska…)
If LAV wrote an article saying something, it’s the truth. I’d listen very carefully to anything the man has to say.
FWIW, Mr. Vickers (If he did indeed write that article) isn’t the only person I’ve heard talk about the G21 as not being up to the standard set by the 9mm Glocks.
If you do decide on a G21, I’d suggest getting the SF model. It feels better in the hand in my opinion.
I have had tons of Glocks in all calibers and the 21 is my favorite. I have a duty model with over 25K through it and not one problem unless it was ammo related. My personal Glock I used for competitions in swat had over 12K without any problems other than ammo related issues.
I teach handgun and rifle courses for the PD. I also teach and adjunct under other instructors here in Texas. Out of all of the classes I have taugh or assisted 1911’s have had the most problems I have ever seen of any handgun. We usually take bets to see if it will last through the 3 day advanced ammo count of 1500-2000 rounds.
Most of the failures are the high end custom 1911’s they are paying 1500-2500+. The only 1911 I saw make it through a 3 day course we taught without a hitch was an out of the box SA Operator an Austin Swat operator was using. Most of them can’t run extremely dirty and have to be cleaned in the middle of the day and their $25+ dollar magazines keep failing to feed. I am not banging on the 1911. I love the feel and workmanship of a 1911. They are in my opinion one of the most ergonomic and well thought out designs in a handgun. But I have seen and experienced so many problems that I will not carry one with me on duty. That is my $.02.
I have never seen a Glock of any caliber fail on any of the high count courses I have fired or instructed on. I run mine through 3-5 day courses without ever cleaning them and just putting a little lube here and there and they always run. Most problems with any manufacturer comes from 1- their magazines, 2- ammo or 3- failure to PM and constantly check your weapons parts that need to be replaced regularly with heavy firing.
In my opinion you should believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. Try one out yourself and make your own decision. Even the pros are jaded and brand loyal.
I bag on no manufacturer. I have shot and used almost all of the current popular military/LE weapons that they carry for duty use and all are relatively good guns. It really centers on which is best for you not what is best for Larry Vickers.
I have used the 21SF and it is not that much smaller but might be better for a smaller set of hands. I have a buddy on NM State Police that has hands like a pack of bananas and he thinks the G21 is too big. I have small - medium sized hands and I can wail with that G21 left or right handed but I play with it at the range and snap in as much as I can trhough out the day. I am of the mind that if you were to shoot a large weapon and thats all you had you would become proficient with it regardless of the size.
Try one out for a few weeks and really see if you like it.
I call B.S especially on “as a “dog” and the worst gun that Glock makes”. There is not a thing in the world wrong with the Glock 21. It is very reliable and accurate, and one of the best .45’s you can buy especially for the price. Those ‘torture’ test are silly because they are not repeatedly consistent and so not good for much more than entertainment. I don’t care who does the “test”. Btw I carried a 1911 most of my life while in the Marine Corps (20+ years=30+ years of 1911’s.) and own plenty of them now. But I also own two Glock 21SF’s and will buy at least on Glock 30Sf when they become available.
You’ve only seen ONE 1911 complete one of your 3-day classes without malfunctioning?
Unless you haven’t taught very many classes, that’s unusual to say the least. I’ve only been participating in such classes since 2002, but I’ve seen many 1911s go the distance of a 3-day class without issues.
Glock-Talk has a higher moron per-capita rate than any other web board on the internet. I assume there will be a bunch of accusations flung at Mr. Vickers by a bunch of internet fanboys whose experience base is playing counter-strike and reading Glock brochures.
Glocks are a tool. They are a tool that works well for some people, not so well for others. Like any company, some of Glock’s products are better than others.
…and yet for some reason there is a certain percentage of Glock owners who react to the idea that there could potentially be ANYTHING undesirable about one of Gaston’s Tupperware blasters like you told them that their mother sells it on the street for a buck fifty.
None of the Glock guys here on M4C (and there are a LOT of them) are like that, and I’ve got Glocks too and I’m not afflicted with that syndrome, so the explanation can’t be some sort of toxin that contaminates the brains of individuals who hold a Glock…
I have a 21SF, that I carry in the truck. It’s a decent weapon. In my chosen environment, it will mostly likely never fail me. It fits we well, and is plenty accurate to 25yds.
Sometimes, I have to look at these tests and qualify them as applicable to me, or not.
This one probably never evens stands a chance of being reality for me, but could for some. I plan accordingly.
My Glock 21 has been completely reliable except for the brief period where I thought it would be interesting to see what a recoil reducing spring might do to the pistol. What it did was make it unreliable. I returned the pistol to stock and its been completely reliable again.
I’m a pretty good shot with a variety of pistols, and I get excellent results from my Glock 21. It compares favorably to most of my other .45s, most of which cost a fair bit more than my G21.
I have a glock 20 and I like the size of the grip. My hands are not large by any stretch. I have one friend who doesn’t like the grip though. He has short fat fingers and he cant reach the trigger very well. Try the 21 out before you buy one though, you may need the 21SF if you have short fingers like my buddy. Also try out the S&W MP, it has a different feel altogether than the glock. Some like it and some dont.
One of my best friends and shooting partners (who also just wrote the best .22 rimfire book out there [Steve Boelter](Steve Boelter) ) recently broke a frame rail on his Glock 21. Of course he has just passed the 53,000 round mark. He called Glock and they replaced the whole gun, not just the frame, no questions asked. 53,000 rounds of .45 ACP is more than most of us will ever shoot (Steve is a freak, took him 2 years). For what it is worth, he also has a Glock 20 that he just passed the 47,000 round mark and it is holding up fine.
