Hello. I need help filling out the form 1 to build a sbr. I’ve got the lower and know which upper i want. Im just curious as to what to put on some of the questions on the form, such as why? and overall length-since I dont have the upper yet? Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Tell us what barrel length and stock you plan on using and someone can give you an OAL.
As to why, I usually put “for all lawful purposes.” YMMV on that one.
The lower is a standard LMT Defender. The upper is a 10.5 cqb
Do I measure it with the stock collapsed or extended? And do I get the fingerprint cards from the police department?
You can order the fingerprint cards from ATF, off of their website. Usually takes close to 2 weeks to get them. Your local PD won’t have the correct ORI number on them. You need them specific to ATF for the NFA branch. Don’t worry when you get them, you’ll see the number on them. You have to send in 2 fingerprint cards (I assume you are doing the individual route, and not a trust), 2 of the Form 1, completed back to back, along with 2 pictures of yourself, one of them on each form. Also you need to send in one certificate of compliance. Don’t forget that one, I did on my first SBR project and had to send in the certificate of compliance, which delayed my approval. Don’t forget to send in your check for 200 dollars too.
Oh, the length is with the stock collapsed, so it’s the shortest length possible. I always put “collecting” on my forms for the reason, since I have a C&R license.
Actually, though I cannot find the exact verbiage right now, I believe the AFT wants the length with the stock extended. Please re-check, and I will try to find the correct rule, unless someone else can post it first.
Yes, it is with stock extended. Weird, I know.
Here are the measurements for my 10.5" SBR:
With collapsible stock fully extended: 31"
With collapsible stock fully collapsed: 27.5"
Hope this helps.
Can you cite me a ruling for that? I’ve always understood it to be the shortest length of the rifle.
Go here for CFR 479.11 ATF regs:
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/aprqtr/27cfr479.11.htm
“The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured
along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.”
That said, there appears to be room in how to interpret “extreme ends of the weapon”, but if you take a poll of folks who have approved Form 1s in their hands, I would wager that the majority have listed OAL w/ stock extended. There are, of course, those who listed w/ collapsed stock and also have approved Form 1s.
Clear as mud?
NFA manual 2.1.4 page 7 simply states muzzle to longest point. But… if it measured 26" or less it would be classified as “made from a rifle” category as well as SBR.
Why don’t you just put the max-min length and that removes all doubt.
Var. 32" thru 27" or whatever it is.
I think ATF wants one overall length, not minimum-maximum. However, I would say call ATF for a ruling. I put the minimum length on my SBR’s when I filed my form 1’s. I always assumed that it was the minimum length they were interested in, not the maximum. Has anybody out there ever had an opinion from an NFA specialist?
OK, what makes a SBR a SBR? A barrel length of less than 16" or an OAL of less than 26". I’m betting since your rifle can be fired collapsed that would be the number they’re looking for. BUT since your barrel is most likely less than 16" it really isn’t a determining factor is it? A knowledgeable guy here with a screen name starting with g and ending with 4 uses collapsed length, that’s what I went with.
I believe it’s an “either/or” type thing. Inherently a barrel length of less than 16" is considered a SBR. But I suppose in a bullpup design like the P90, Aug, Tavor, et al., one could feasibly have a 16" barrel but with an overall length of 26" or less. I understand with the current design of these carbines, that is not the case, but I think you can see the possibility.
That’s what I said, “or”. But I do think you get the picture.
OK, what makes a SBR a SBR?
From ATF 5300-4
(8) The term “short-barreled rifle”
means a rifle having one or more barrels
less than sixteen inches in length
and any weapon made from a rifle
(whether by alteration, modification, or
otherwise) if such weapon, as modified,
has an overall length of less than
twenty-six inches.
That is the point of the questions for barrel length and OAL. You could apply for a SBR stamp and if they only asked what is the length of the barrel you might say 18". So then they need to know what is OAL. Say 25". That is an SBR. EDIT: …and I meant to say 25" collapsed. But if you gave them extended OAL it might be 27". So you would have an 18"/27" non-SBR until you collapse the stock and I don’t think that is going to fly.
The two questions answer the 16" and 26" aspects of the regulations.
EDIT: Case for shortest oal
Finally found a reference. A letter from the ATF can be found at the below link that states the OAL should be measured with stock extended. Use and apply at your own peril.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showpost.php?p=494769&postcount=46
Good sleuthing!