Finishing up my first AR build. Aero lower with BCM LPK. Complete 14.5 midlength BCM upper with Midwest industries ssk12 rail.
Few questions I need advice on.
I am new to AR platform and rifles in general. Right now I have no sights. Since I am new is it better to a) buy a cheap RDS to practice on like a holosun/primary arms or b) buy a set of BUIS like the Magpul pros to learn on irons before any optics at all?
Should I get gen 2 or gen 3 pmags? Any major advantage to the gen 3? I will probably one day replace the aero lower with a BCM lower and use this lower on another build and I heard gen 3s may not work well with the BCM lower.
Welcome to the world of AR’s! If you are new to rifles and shooting in general, most traditionalists would likely recommend learning on a set of iron sights. This is a fundamental skill that will serve you well with many rifles. However, a red dot sight is a joy to use and is super simple for one getting started or for the pros. You can invest lots of money in a high-end red dot like an Aimpoint that works great and is bombproof, but you can buy something at a small fraction of the cost like a Primary Arms for less than $90. See: https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-microdot-with-removable-base-gen-2 . I have purchased both and use both. If I knew I was going to be deployed for 6 months and carrying the rifle every day, I’d prefer the Aimpoint, but realistically, the Primary Arms will hold up great. Use the price difference to buy ammo and train. Good luck!
There’s no reason to have to learn irons first; however, you’re better off putting a set of quality irons on the gun than a cheap optic for the same money. I’d buy good irons (the Magpuls you mentioned are fine) and save for an Aimpoint PRO. I wouldn’t worry too much about PMAG generation; both run fine. I’ve got no experience with the BCM lower/Gen 3 potential issue. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with good GI mags w/anti-tilt (Magpul) followers. These are my preference, honestly, due to the general ease in which they stow and slide in/out of pouches.
I would go right to the RDS and get a middle-of-the road one to start.
I don’t know your age, but some older shooters have trouble with the dot flaring because of presbyopia. If that is the case an etched reticle optic may be a good choice. I have several. I prefer the Vortex Spitfire 1x Prism for an un-magnified optic - the DRT reticle is less cluttered and more user friendly than others I have. At $199.99 here, you wont break the bank: https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-spitfire-1x-prism-scope-w-drt-moa-reticle.html
Another option is a LPVO (Low Power Variable Optic) scope. Generally 1 to 4 or 1.5 to 6 power. Generally with an illuminated reticle. At 1 power you are right in RDS territory, and of course, at higher magnification you have the increased precision that a magnified optic offers. A good, for the money, entry level IMO is the Burris MTA 1-4: https://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/mtac-riflescopes-series/mtac-riflescope-1-4x24mm I prefer the Ballistic AR reticle, I have the Ballistic CQ reticle in an AR332 3X Prism and don’t like it near as well as my MTAC with AR.
I’d go optic over iron sights first if you can afford it. In your second question you talk about building another. This is one of the reasons that I use middle-of-the-road optics on my range AR’s - you end up with 6 or 7 in the safe and it gets pretty rough going out $600 plus on optics for range rifles.
Generally, you can get quality USGI mags for a couple bucks cheaper than Magpuls and not have the problem.
Don’t over look the polymer magpul mbus sights. They have been proven time and time again to be durable and consistent. They are affordable lightweight and dependable, I never hesitate to recommend them.
I was in your shoes three years ago and spent two years with irons and still love them. I have a prism sight and a red dot but still like irons better. The basic mag is a USGI. That would be an aluminium USGI. They just snap in and feel like,… like,…like victory! Get at least one so you will know how the baseline feels and works and then branch out into other mags.
I wouldn’t waste time or money buying anything cheap. I don’t understand the logic of buying cheap optics and parts “until you can buy better” which seems really common.
Anyway, you didn’t mention a budget so I’ll go low. Get a set of Daniel Defense fixed irons and an Aimpoint PRO. That’s about as cheap and durable as you can get.
Unless of course you want to do your own research, go put eyes on optics in stores, etc. and decide for yourself. Just stick with normal grade stuff like Aimpoint, EOTech, etc.
I just this week bought a set of steel flip-up sights from Aero Precision for well under $100 shipped. My third set & theyve been excelllent. Id never use poly sights.
Its hard to go against guys like 26Inf & others here who really know their shit. I may/may not be older than he or the others, but I think us older dudes are generally gonna recommend sights first, then optic, cause its what we were brought up on, long before Rd’s existed…they work, they’ve won multiple wars, and are rock solid reliable & dependable. Admittedly, I do not have anywhere near the time behind quality RD’s as many here do.
But as for me & my house, Id never own a rifle w/o irons…Im building a 20" precision type gun now that’ll have them.
As mentioned, you might not always have 100% accuracy with them, but Magpul MBUS are hard to beat, especially when you can get a set at www.palmettostatearmory.com for $49.99 regularly.
When I need a rear sight, my go-to has been the Daniel Defense A1.5. I’ve got two in use now, plus a their front sight that’s going on a free floated Colt. The value is great on sale. Beyond that, the Magpul PRO’s seem very nice, particularly if you expect to keep them as future backup sights to a magnified optic; I have a PRO front sight that I haven’t actually used yet. I did force myself to use irons as I learned the AR; personally, I think it’s kind of a mandatory thing to do, just like driving the Ford Aerostar was mandatory before buying the Mustang.
I’m not the senior guy here, but I can say that once I purchased and used lower-end optics, I wanted to get nicer. I do have a Primary Arms advanced micro red dot sight, and it has worked just fine. With that said, I now just have it as an offset backup to a rifle with a 3-9x scope. My go-to would be the Trijicon MRO, due to seeming to have the same quality as Aimpoint in a smaller/lighter package. Also, Mark Wahlberg used the MRO on an HK416 in Mile 22, so you know it has to be gtg.
GI magazines can be purchased at PSA for $6.99 regularly. Though I have purchased the Okays and have boxes of unopened PMAGS, I’ve never had a problem with the PSA’s, and for someone starting out, that’s all you’ll ever need. But, I do tend to reach for PMAGS to throw in the range bag. Both M2 and M3 PMAGS work fine in my BCM lower purchased last spring.
As far as a RDS goes, I would not put any money into something to practice with. Go ahead and buy the RDS that you are going to stick with. If you are on a low budget, there is nothing wrong with the HOLOSUN or Primary Arms RDSs. For the money, they are good optics. VORTEX is another that is very reasonably priced and good quality. If you are not on a strapped budget, I recommend the Trijicon MRO. Right now, LaRue Tactical has the MRO (red-dot) with their LT-839 QD mount for only $440 (on sale).
On the BUISs, the MAGPUL MBUS PROs are good stuff. I would also take a look the new Midwest Industries Combat Rifle Sight Set (MI-CRS-SET) for $149.95.
When it comes to PMAGs, I prefer the Gen 2. They work well with everything I have. I have read where some have had fitment and release issues with Gen 3 PMAGs, but not in most cases.
Get an Aimpoint PRO if you’re on a limited budget, or an Aimpoint T2 or Comp M4 if you aren’t. Gen 2 or 3 Pmags will work just fine. Daniel Defense fixed sights are pretty good, but I prefer the LMT fixed sights, as they function like a set of A2 sights.
To add to what’s already been said, don’t just buy an optic blind off of the Internet if you can avoid it. Find a decent local gun shop that carries quality optics and look through them yourself before committing to buying one.
I say this because if you are unfamiliar with red dot and holographic sights you may have eyesight issues you don’t even know you have that can make them more difficult to use (astigmatism for example). Even different models from the same brand can vary slightly due to dot size, brightness settings, etc…
Stick with the known quality sights and you’ll be set. Aimpoint Pro or Trijicon MRO are good choices if you’re on a budget. If you can afford more then look at the Aimpoint T2, Comp M4/M4S, Comp M5/M5s, or an EoTech EXPS3.
I learned to shoot rifles with iron sights on a 10/22. There’s a great satisfaction that comes with hitting bottle caps at 25 yards using irons. With that said, the three ARs I have with flip-up iron sights and some kind of optical sight have never utilized the irons after initial zeroing.
If I only had one AR, I would make sure it had dependable iron sights as well as proven optics. You don’t want to ruin a range trip or lose the use of you rifle if a red dot fails and needs to be repaired. I haven’t had good experience with budget red dots but I don’t mind them on plinking rifles. I had a Bushnell TRS-25 where the dot disappeared in a third of the window and warrantied then sold it. I have a Holosun where the elevation screw didn’t move the dot until a loud “snap” and the dot jumped halfway down the window. It sits on a 15-22 that also has a set of MBUS.
Also, one other option to consider is purchasing your optics used on the Equipment Exchange on this forum. Good way to help someone else offload no longer needed kit while saving you some money. Win-win.
If you spend any time on the forums you will end up convincing yourself you need a T2 or a Nightforce ACTAR within months of getting your AR. Get some irons and have fun, learn your holds and buy ammo. An honest assessment of my needs brings me back to irons every time. Simple is hard to argue with in most cases.
A Holosun will be fine and will last you throughout all of your needs. It’s not 2009 anymore; inexpensive red dots are nearly equal in quality and durability to the big players (Aimpoint, Eotech, etc), but at a fraction of the cost. LPVO’s are getting there too with Primary Arms and the Strike Eagle offerings, but there’s still a larger gap with magnified optics. Logically as technology is improved and refined, manufacturing costs decrease.
That being said, if you plan this to be your only rifle, I would hold off and get an Aimpoint or Eotech for the marginal increase in quality/durability. However, I wouldn’t feel bad carrying a Holosun into combat; they work. My main squeeze has an Aimpoint, and the rest have Holosuns, as it’s a lot easier to outfit 5 rifles with $125 Holosuns than $600 Aimpoints.
Regarding irons, I like to have a set on my rifle. Practically though, I would get the red dot first as that’s going to be used more and is ultimately far more important for actually shooting the rifle. I would still purchase a set of MBUIS Pros or something similar and learn how to use them. It’s good for learning fundamentals and it’s not really too hard.
The generation of PMAG is irrelevant, though you could argue that the gen3s are slightly better. PMAGs, Lancers, and the aluminum GI mags are great. The type of mag isn’t really super relevant- just buy mags. I like to have a minimum of 6 per rifle, preferably 10, but you can’t really have /too/ many mags.
