Some people find the sight picture on their RDS “cluttered” and others don’t. If you’re heads-up with both eyes open, focused on the target or threat and superimpose the red dot, you get hits. Some of us find the sight is nothing more than a obscure blur. I don’t even see it anymore unless I focus on the front sight. YMMV. Neither is right or wrong, but a matter of preference.
I decided to merge multiple threads discussing this concept and to tack this new combined thread since the question comes up so often.
I now understood the FOV advantage, but I need clarifications on Point of Impact on 1/3 Co-Witness when zeroing the Red-Dot sight.
At 1/3 Co-Wit, practical wisdom says that (except at zeroed distance [example-50yards]); the point of impact between red dot and iron sight is slightly different. Further at distance beyond the 50-yards, accepted and ‘published’ ballistic trajectory would be off for the red dot sights, since it sits HIGHER compared with the iron sight plane. (Axis to bore ratio)
Is this concern valid or just purely hot gas??
My intention would be to shoot the red dot to as far as 200yards or slightly farther.
Please post your opinions…
I have two carbines set up with an EOtech:
one with the fixed front sight has a bottom 1/3 as I use a larue riser to keep the front sight out of the main portion of the EOTech window, the other has a flip up front so I don’t need a riser and this gives a perfect co-witness in that the circle and the dot align exactly with the BUIS.
Neither of then cause a need to change POI/POA for the differing set ups as the difference is only a change in optic over bore of about 5/8" for the EoTech riser vs. EoTech sans riser… So I Zero at 50 yards with dots and irons all impacting the same.
Here’s my equation, which may or may not resonate with you:
Backup iron sights:
Fixed - Go with a lower 1/3rd, you’ll appreciate it.
Folding - Doesn’t really make a difference, but lower 1/3rd can often be a bit taller than I’m naturally inclined to shoulder the weapon with. Absolute cowitness in this situation.
It’s a matter of personal preference. I seem to work better with an absolute cowitness, but that’s just me.
I hate to keep beating this horse, but I would like a little more opinion as to which height optic people prefer and why.
I just got my lower 1/3 SOCOM riser from ADM, but am having second thoughts. What I hate is the new cheek weld, or “chin weld”, required to shoot it. To me, keeping that cheek weld consistent aids to repeatability and accuracy. When you cheek that weapon system, it should feel the same every time. Thoughts?
Btw, I am running flip up irons and have them folded down.
I only run a lower 1/3. Why? Because I want as little of my FOV blocked as possible.
The more you head is “up” the better situational awareness you have.
Cheek weld does not matter when using a RDS (FYI). You can be upside down and hit your target as long as the dot is on it.
Sights should be up and ready to go. Too many times we see guys optics fail in training classes and then they are screwed as they have their sights down.
C4
I run lower 1/3 mounts entirely. I also prefer fixed front and rear irons, or irons flipped up if they have the capability. I run my guns with my nose on the charging handle and have no trouble finding the dot on either 30mm or micro Aimpoints.
When I have been forced to use an absolute cowitness mount I have felt like I was mashing my face into the stock, and I absolutely want at least a flip down rear sight (the front effectively ghosts away).
You might try a Knight’s micro mount as IIRC it comes with two risers to give you either absolute or lower 1/3.
I can see if you are running the irons up that lower 1/3 is optimal. (Btw, I bought my optic and riser from you, thanks for the good price 
). Realistically though, how often are these red dots going down? In the rare case that they do, I wouldn’t say the shooter is screwed. You can still shoot through the tube, and those irons take less that 1 second to deploy.
I know cheek weld doesn’t matter with aiming with and RDS, the bullet goes where the dot is, but I think it does matter with stability. Controlling recoil, shooting rapidly, transitioning between targets, etc. I think the more consistent and tighter things are, the better you shoot.
That smashed cheek feeling is what I like, or at least what I am used to. It just feels more stable to me. Plus it is the same weld as with irons.
I am using an ADM Mount which is modular as well, so I can change out risers if I want to. I am just trying to figure out which way to go before I spend the money. The new riser is only about $25 but I don’t want to spend more unless I am sure.
Optics are man devices and fail all the time.
Using the optics tube to shoot only works ok at best. When only hits count, why risk it??? How much training have you done with the tube only? How far was the target? How big was the target?
It takes longer than 1 second to deploy your optic and generally what happens is the shooter sits there for 10 seconds trying to figure out where their dot went.
No on stability, controlling recoil, shooting fast or engaging multiple targets. What DOES help with all of this is recoil management, muzzle flip control and trigger discipline. The bulk of these things are controlled by your weight balance, where your arms/hands are on the weapon and how you are applying force.
C4
A wise man once said, and I’m paraphrasing, “There’s a reason they’re called back UP iron sights”…
Just sayin’.
I am pretty new to shooting red dots, and have done 0 shooting out of the tube, but know it can be done. I figured it would be accurate enough to get you to a position to where you can flip your sights up though.
I guess my big complaint is the new cheek weld. I am not used to it, and it does not feel as stable. It may just be something I need to get used to.
So does everyone run their irons up with a red dot? Keep in mind, I am new to the game here, but from what I have seen, people seem to fold those down and out of the way.
I am not new to shooting red dots, trying to use JUST the tube or training. 
As I said only hits counts and of those, only quality hits make a difference.
The proof is in CQB shooting schools where the dot fails and the shooter just stands there trying to figure out WTF just happened. Then they realize that they need to be shooting the bad guy and miss (at close distances using “just the tube”).
Training and practice is everything. Just like the guys that don’t want to keep their other eye open when they shoot. It is just something you need to get over.
C4
Depends on how educated the shooter is. Meaning, has the person giving you feedback had any real training from a instructor worth a damn???
Both Vickers and Hackathorn teach to have your irons up and ready.
C4
I don’t want to get into a pissing match over instructors being worth a damn. I know that Costa and Haley run with their irons down. They seem pretty good to me.
I have seen Costa with them up at a class. (FYI).
There is NO argument worth anything for keeping your irons down.
C4
I’m working on an article to explain this. If nobody pays me for it I’ll wind up posting it here for free.
“People” are stupid. Persons are smart. It’s good that you are questioning what you see others doing. Think of how few of those people questioned anything, just assumed, and wound up making decisions based on what they saw others doing and/or based on zero time at the range.
I know this because I made this mistake myself. On my second AR I was absolutely convinced that I needed the irons to fold down out of the way of the optic, and I was wrong.
Well, the ONLY reason I can make is that you would have 1/3 more tube to look through. I am guessing this is not sufficient?
Keep in mind, if I was to keep my irons up, there is no question whatsoever about what height riser to go with. SOCOM all the way!