I had an interesting conversation with a friend who knows more about AR triggers than most people have forgotten.
My question to him was this:
“I’m frustrated with my “mil spec” trigger. During drills and courses, when shooting at speed, I intermittently fail to fully reset my trigger and it cocks up what would have been a really satisfying evolution or drill. So which trigger has a shortest reset? I need it!”
His response was basically this which surprised me, given his knowledge of AR triggers:
"Learn to operate the goddamn trigger that you have!
He commented that learning to fully reset a trigger:
Helps to mitigate issues of stress such as "scared shit-less, hurt, weak, tired, ill, sick, cold, hot, wet, muddy, dusty,
or under any kind of physical, medical or psychological pressure.
The real possibility that in some situations you may not be shooting your gun.
Shooting with gloves (I cannot emphasize enough the enormous difference that it makes).“”
These are issues I guess I never really considered. But he makes a very good point. Would purchasing a “better” trigger just be a crutch for not learning how to properly operate my trigger? And would using a “better” trigger cause some real problems in the situations he described above.
If all the points above are baloney and I’m way off base here, which trigger should I buy to help with my issue? The fastest I’ve run a Vtac 2X2X2 drill is 1.64sec, which isn’t blistering fast. And I keep thinking with a “faster” trigger I may be able to get that down below 1.5sec, which I’d be more than happy with. Maybe…
I’ve always been a mil-spec trigger guy myself, they’re just good and reliable. You could spend some coin on a good 2 stage or match trigger, but it’s not necessary. Learn to operate your trigger. We’re getting down to splitting hairs when it comes to fractions of a second on how fast we can punch holes in paper or ping steel.
So let’s break this down: I’m trying to shoot fast and accurately. The problem I’m having is the fast part. When I’m not really trying to beat the time I don’t have reset issues. When I’m really trying to shoot fast I will mess up maybe 1 in 10 drills due to reset.
If I keep my stock trigger, how do I stop this issue? Do I just need to train more or should I be practicing a certain reset technique (such as the flip and press or slack out shooting)?
Why settle for a shitty to you trigger if you don’t have to?? Get yourself an SD-E and be done with it. Maybe a 3g if all you want to do is shoot fast. Neither will solve your reset problem if you don’t learn to peddle the trigger. GH
Whether you need a new trigger because you don’t like the feel of mil spec triggers is your call, I don’t much like them either. As for short resets the AR Gold, Wilson 3gun, Geissele 3gun are some of the shortest. Be aware though that a really short reset can lead to unintentional bump firing if you’re not paying attention. I like the Geissele SSA-E, 2 stage, it has a pretty good reset… a very crisp and satisfying trigger.
Does the rest of the trigger satisfy you? If it’s just the reset, what happens when you drop a few hundred on a fancy new trigger and you still overshoot the reset?
There’s nothing wrong with getting a new trigger to match your needs, but it IS possible that may not fix your problem. However, practicing and learning your current trigger will (unless it’s just an awful fit for you otherwise). Once you get at least a little better with it, re-evaluate. Your friend makes valid points, but they also may not be that valid for you (will you really be in situations where you need to use foreign guns, etc?)
All that said, if you get good with the reset on a stock trigger, you’ll only be better if you decide to upgrade.
Geissele S3G or SD3G is what you seek. I have an SD3G. Warning after buying one, you’ll want one for every other platform you own, which they don’t make I really want one for my AK.
Larry Vickers had a a cool segment on the Handgun Myth episode of TAC TV about getting your reset under control. He talked about guys waiting until the gun has cycled and they are back on target, before they let the slack out. They then rush their next shot. When people really get into a hurry they don’t let the slack out, because their finger is going the “wrong way” (toward the bad guy) when it should be going the other way. He suggested getting your reset done during the recoil cycle so when the gun gets settled back down you are already reset and ready to go.
Something to think about and I’m sure I butchered his explanation and reasoning.
You may actually BE faster than your trigger re-set.
The civilian AR and GI A1 hammer are pretty massive. You can lighten it up some and it’ll re-set faster.
Standard to lightened:
or you could just buy a JP Speed Hammer:
Ad Topperwein, a speed and trick shooter in the 1910s through the 50s preferred a revolver over a Colt 1911 because he had to wait for the auto to cycle.
If you’re missing the reset with a standard AR trigger, you’ll miss the reset with a G trigger.
If you reset the trigger while the carrier is still pressing the hammer down, the trigger will reset without a click whether it’s a standard or Geiselle.
The reset of my two G triggers (SSA & SSA-E) does not feel any shorter than the reset of any standard AR trigger I’ve tried
My splits are usually .13/.14 on average. I would guess re-set time varies a ton with different buffer, spring, carrier, weights etc, and it’s probably a whole lot faster than .13 sec.
Your looking in the wrong place if shaving time is your goal. Lets say you drop to .11 with a S3G, you are only shaving 6 one hundredths or so, which is nothing at your current skill level. Those kind of small incremental time savings are concerns of the top level world champion shooters. Far too many lesser experienced shooters put too much emphasis on splits between shots. In reality times are made up on the time to the first shot, transitions between targets and other manipulations (reloads, movement, etc) drill dependent. You can make up tenths in your presentation to first shot and target to target transitions. This is huge time savings compared to trigger speed and shot to shot splits.
First learn the USGI trigger inside and out. If you switch to a better trigger now will you improve? Probably yes, but fractionally. However more often than not, those who master the USGI trigger generally perform infinitely better when they eventually switch to a better trigger. FWIW - I show absolutely no time differences on a 2x2x2, half and half, or 1-5 with a standard USGI vs. a S3G trigger. As a matter of fact the fastest splits I have run have come off of USGI triggers at .10’s whereas I only pull .11’s with the S3G.
Again looking at triggers to shave times is not the right place to be looking. Just some things to consider.
I really want one for my AK.
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