So, I lucked out and found 1 pound of Varget and 4 of H4895. I have some more SMK 77’s w/cannelure enroute. Question is, I haven’t crimped in the past with these, haven’t had issues. Does anyone use the Lee Factory Crimp Die? I just picked one up, mainly to have.
Reading the Lee book, test state that the inconsistancies were less with a crimp vs. no crimp.
Thoughts ?
Mark
I’m loading 75 hornady’s and have not seen any need to crimp yet…I can tell I have good neck tension when seating & always prefer to not crimp coming from a benchrest background.
you like 4895 for .223?
If you’re going for precision you should use a neck-sizing die (I’d recommend a Redding S-die with a .245 bushing).
Crimping case mouths into bullets or merely squeezing the case necks into the bullet jacket causes inconsistencies in the jacket and core – exactly what the bullet manufacturer was trying to PREVENT if they were making match-grade projectiles.
A properly sized neck will provide enough neck tension that you will never need to worry about bullet set-back and will be consistent enough to give uniform pressures.
What kind of gun?
This is an AR, so that neck sizing is out, well aware of that for the bolt guns.
I’ll do some test, just got the crimp die. So far without crimp, I’m getting .5 to .6 with the 18" Stealth. Two different charge weights of Varget and 69/77 SMK’s
I’m trying the H4895 since there’s no Varget around. I called Sierra today and got the data for the 2 bullets weights.
The only other powder I’ve used for .223 is 748(to temp sensitive) and 4320, worked great and accurate (69 gr SMK/Oly Ultra Match)
Mark
Not sure what you meant by “This is an AR, so that neck sizing is out, well aware of that for the bolt guns.”
The Ammo Shop at the US Army Marksmanship Unit runs every new 5.56mm Long Range case (and special runs of Infantry Trophy or special option ammo) they’re going to use through a Redding S-Die with a .245. This uniforms and trues ALL necks for consistent tension.
We fired tens of thousands of these rounds per year. These are virgin Lake City cases with crimped Match primers, shipped direct from Lake City in 20mm Vulcan cannon cans).
For my own ammo I run it through a Dillon with a decapper on station 1; Redding neck S-die on station 2; Redding Small Base body die on three. I hand prime all cases with a Lee primer tool. All powder is hand thrown with a Redding BR-30 measure.
I use a separate tool head for bullet seating using a Redding or Forster Benchrest seating die (depending on bullet weight and ogive shape).
Good options if you can’t get Varget are Reloader-15; VihtaVuori N135, N140, and 540; TAC (kinda dirty); and IMR or Hodgden 4895.
how does the 4895 do?
I have some reclaimed military 4895, I believe IMR. I thought this was used in 7.62 but I also read it can be used for heavy bullets in 5.56. correct?
As I understand, some people only neck size when shooting the same brass in one bolt gun since the casing is “formed” to that chamber.
Ignorant on the use of the Redding die? Does it do something the small base die doesn’t do?
Right now, I have the Lee set, including the hand tool. Along with the bullets, I do have the RCBS small base die set on the way. I have the Lee perfect powder measure and check it with an old Ohaus scale-I check that with a check weight. One day I need to get some more “precision equipment” Small time operation on an old Lee single stage.
keep it coming!
Mark,
My initial tests with RL15 with the 75gr pills have been really good.
N140 is almost identical but usually costs more so.
Mark, the Redding neck-sizing S-die sizes just the neck to align and hold the bullet – it does nothing else.
The Redding Small Base Body-only die re-sizes the case body dimension and bumps the shoulder back just a hair so that the loaded round fits the chamber correctly for semi-auto feeding.
A standard or small-base die that de-caps, sizes the case, and bumps back the shoulder in one stroke has a tendency to over work your brass.
During the up-stroke the decapping pin punches out the old primer and the die then re-sizes the case walls, bumps the shoulder back, and sizes the neck. On the down-stroke the decapping button rounds out the case mouth at the cost of opening it back up a few thousandths.
Using the Dillon 550, a separate de-cap station punches out the expended primer cap only. The S-Die re-sizes the neck to standard (you choose how much neck tension you want using different sized bushings) without opening/enlarging the case mouth opening on the down-stroke.
This is effortless on a Dillon. It would be a lot of work on a single-stage press.
Sinister, Thanks for the info! It’s not high volume, so one day, I can get the upgraded tools. It’s just a way for me to shoot some quality loads without spending alot on factory match.
I look at the Sinclair catalog at the top end precision loading gear, nice but I doubt it would benefit me unless I had a bench rest gun.
If I need to do the higher volume for general shooting with 55 gr ball, the crimp die would be of more use I guess?
I do prefer the Varget, was going to try R15, but out on both. The only thing they had .223 wise was the BL-c(2) and H4895.
I wonder if that RRA NM I used to have had a tight chamber or the Lee die wasn’t sizing it correctly. I never had feed issues with 5 other guns using the same die, including the Stealth and an Ultra Match. I guess that’s the reason for the small base.
don’t forget TAC, its ball type powder that flows very nice.
My pet load is 23.6 TAC, CCI400 primers, 77g Nosler pill.
The powders I mentioned will do you well for bullets in the 68-77 grain range.
If you’re going to shoot mostly 55s I’d recommend ball powders that slide through a powder measure fairly consistently – Win 748, BLC-2 I think is a ball powder, 2230, and TAC.
The stick powders (IMR and H-4895, Varget, Reloader-15, and the VihtaVuori powders) are a little trickier due to the powder’s “Stick” shape.
If you shop around for GI surplus powder pulled down from old rounds you can buy good (cheap and consistent) WC 844 from the same guys who pull-down GI bullets and brass, usually in up to 8-pound cans/jugs.
The sticker shock for reloading equipment and components doesn’t take the sting out of ammo costs until one day you start wondering, “Gee, do I have 5 or 6 loads on this batch of brass?”
My loading tool sticker shock vanished shortly after the $.10-per-round surplus M193 I had been shooting permanently dried up. No regrets here at all.
Things like H-335 (WC844) work better for lighter weight (55/62) while BLC-2 (WC846) are better (burn more efficiently) with higher weight projectiles (I believe those were originally 308 projectiles). These are probably not match powders. Varget, VV, etc work well for that application.
To the OP:
I like the LFCD for odd ball issues. Recently I pulled apart some FN Riot ammo (308 with a rubber/plastic bullet) and reloaded it with some surplus/foreign 147gr pulls that I had. Where ever those pulls came from, they had a pretty deep/wide cannelure that a taper die couldn’t get a grip on no matter how tightly I adjusted it. So I ordered a LFCD and that gave it the bite I needed to get a decent crimp. YMMV
I’ve been watching the normal haunts for surplus powder for about a year and not seen anything. Have any leads on some?
The sticker shock for reloading equipment and components doesn’t take the sting out of ammo costs until one day you start wondering, “Gee, do I have 5 or 6 loads on this batch of brass?”
Amen.
I bought some WC844T and some WC846 at the end of December – delivered in Feb some time – from Pat’s Reloading. Last I checked that were out but worth watching.
After searching, I am surprised there are so few topics here on crimping.
I haven’t found the need to crimp any of my loads for immediate consumption (mostly loads with 55 gr bullets sort of mimicking M193), plenty of neck tension to get them working in an AR, was wondering if anyone else just skips this process altogether.
Is a crimp needed? I say no. I went through several thousand rounds without crimping when I first started reloading. After purchasing an M1A, I realized that with that rough action, I would need a crimp. I was worried about accuracy from the crimp causing bullet inconsistencies. After testing both crimped and uncrimped (single loaded) through the M1A, I was surprised to see that the crimped rounds were slightly more accurate. This test was repeated in a Remington Model 700 PSS with the same results. From that point on, I started crimping everything. I think the increase in accuracy was from a more consistent neck tension. I use Lee crimp dies.
Crimping a rifle round for a semi-auto rifle provides a certain amount of confidence that set-back will not occur. It is a higher possibility than with a bolt gun since you don’t actually observe the round being chambered. Does crimping ruin a perfectly good bullet? I say no more than ramming it through the barrel with intense heat and pressure that causes rifling deformation and copper fouling.
I say give crimping a try and post your results. I would post mine, but that test was nearly a decade ago.