Also don’t forget that across a few forums there are really only 5-10 guys bitching about accuracy. The rest of the world is happy as can be.
Correct.
S&W has been winning lots of US and International contracts (large contracts like 20,000 guns). Accuracy have never been a problem on those contract bids.
C4
It worked for me. 
I don’t think the 3 people who will listen to him will have a substantive impact on the gun industry. 
I really hope you’re right about that. Would truly be a great thing for the M&P.
im competely opposite of you, i have a mp9l, and i would trade it for a glock in a heartbeat. its accurate and reliable , but i physically cant get used to it. i think im hardwired for glocks since ive been shooting them for so long
Does it matter that many of the most accomplished and well respected shooters on these forums have also “bitched” about the accuracy issues of the M&P 9mm pistols? The fact that Apex is putting so much work into their Bar-Sto 9mm M&P barrels should be a clue to anyone doubting the claims of poor accuracy in the 9mm M&P’s. If the accuracy of the M&P9 didnt need to be improved Randy Lee and Co. wouldnt be wasting their time.
To the OP…
In my opinion the 9mm M&P’s are plagued with some issues which were a deal breaker for me. Keep in-mind that I carried the M&P9 as my duty and off-duty pistol for the last 3 years. All of the issues revolve around the barrel, locking block, and magazines in my opinion.
The barrel and locking block are what appears to be the weak link where the accuracy issues are concerned. From comments from Randy of Apex it appears that S&W used the wrong twist rate in their 9mm barrels. My observations have led meto believe that the accuracy gets worse as the round count increase due to increased wear on the locking block. The metal of the locking block must be softer that that used in their barrels. After only a few hundred rounds, the locking blocks on the 3 M&P9’s that I owned looked like they had been beaten with a brick. The increased wear on the locking block can’t be good for the lock-up of the barrel. Do I have scientific data to support my observation? Nope, but logic has to come into play at some point.
The magazines: I have had the rounds/follower get stuck half way up the magazine tube too many times to count. The mags needed to be disassembled to fix this.
“Auto-forward”: This is something that is a fact of life with most polymer framed pistols and even some metal framed pistols as well. The specific issue I have found with the M&P9 (9mm) variants is that with every hollow point round I have loaded and fired thru my 3 M&P9’s and numerous other M&P9’s that I have access to have all choked on HP ammo. The nose of the HP rounds get hung-up at the bottom of the feed ramp. This is something I can replicate with every M&P9 I have ever handled. The most recent production M&P9 that I purchased which was a mid/2011 production pistol did something different when it “Auto-forward-ed”. It would not pick-up a round from the magazine at all. The slide would go forward on an empty chamber. I tried to avoid the “auto-forward” as much as I could, but under stress during slide-lock reload drills it would eventually happen. With FMJ/Ball training ammo it would cycle/load just fine. Add HP/Duty ammo and you end up with a FTF.
I invested well over $2000 on the 9mm M&P platfrom due to the ergonomics of the platform (3x pistols/14 magazines/Holsters/Pouches/Apex DCAEK, etc.), but the Magazine/Auto-forward/FTF issue was the end of the line for me. If they ever correct these issues I would gladly give the 9mm M&P another try. Until then my 9mm Glocks run & shoot like they should.
If I were looking for a carry pistol in .40 or .45 the M&P would likely be my first choice. M&P in 9mm? Not so much.
ETA: As far as large municipality/Govt contract purchases of weapons are concerned, I have been a cop for 16 years and I work with and know hundreds of guys carrying guns purchased for them by their agencies. The overwhelming majority of them only shoot their pistols once a year to meet an annual qualification mandate. “Accuracy” for them is hitting an 8.5x14" sheet of paper @ 15 or 25yds max.
The auto forward was deal breaker for me also. As were a few other issues. I do like the ergos and the trigger break but I’m back to being firmly entrenched in glocks, after buying 3 M&P’s.
To the poster who said most folks can’t shoot into 8" at 25 yards so it doesn’t matter … There are so many things in regards to this, so lets make it simple…If your pistol shoots 8" at 25 yds and you can only shoot say a 10" group…you now have a 18" variable spread …
If you can still shoot a 10" group with a 1.5" gun…well you get the idea.
Why wouldn’t you want an accurate gun?!
I want a gun that goes bang every time and puts the bullet where I send it.
Thanks to everyone for the thoughts and experiences. I’ve been curious about the M&P ever since it came out couple years ago. At that time, there simply wasn’t enought market support for me to consider it a viable option, but that has changed. I’d especially like to thank Doc for taking the time to post, and Nick, I can appreciate your experiences as well.
The bottom line for me is that after shooting the M&P and my 19 side by side last Saturday, I see enough of a difference to make me want to give it a shot. I do appreciate Doc’s position that the 19 can be modified to fit me, but that’s more money into a gun to “see” if I like it, and that won’t add anything to it’s resale value (should that need arise, though my pistol is probably the last gun I would sell).
Monday night I ordered two M&P 9’s from Grant and Tuesday morning I sold my 19. Did I mess up? Time will tell, but if so, it’s not a ton of money difference to get back into the 19’s if the M&P’s don’t work out. My local market is pretty hungry and there’s no “good” local source. I sold my used 19 with box and 2 mags for $450 in 5 minutes flat on a local classifieds site and had 5 more offers in the next 5 minutes that it took me to mark the pistol as sold. A couple guys even offered me $500 for it if I would sell it to them instead. The point is, if I determine that the M&P is not for me, there are plenty of local guys that would be happy to take them off my hands.
Thanks again for all the input and experiences!
Unfortunately as far as this thread is concerned my experience with Glocks and M&P’s is with both .45 models. I’ve owned both the G21 and the M&P 45 Mid. As is I greatly prefer my M&P 45 to the G21. It is very very accurate and the weapon fits my hand perfectly. I’ve probably put close to 2K rounds through it in the last year and the only hiccup was with Hornady steel cased ammunition. This was totally an ammo problem that was verified by others in the class I was taking experiencing the same problems when shooting it. I’ve thought about switching to the M&P 9 but the accuracy issue has deterred me from doing that. When I compare the two rounds, 9mm and 45ACP, the main drawback to the 45ACP is the cost. If I were to make the leap to 9mm then I’d probably still go with a M&P.
Well im probably a big dumbass I bought an M&P 9 and 45 and glock 19 and glock 17 rtf2 I shoot the m&p 9 & glock19 the best I love both platforms but the magazine springs still suck on the M&P 45
I’ll probably ditch my M&P9 as soon as I figure out what I want next. Wont be a Glock but I am thinking of a PPQ or HK P30.
My M&P40 with Storm Lake 9mm conversion barrel has had zero issues but my M&P9 has been frustrating.
Well, until I can outshoot mine, I’m sticking with the M&P 9 platform. There are sooo many good things about the M&P series IMO, that it’s not worth changing just yet. I considered switching to .40 S&W version as 9mm accuracy issues seems to be only remaining issues with the line, but additional cost of ammo will easily pay for accuracy upgrades to M&P 9 within several cases. My M&P 9 has been 100% reliable since I purchased it, and I don’t take care of my stuff that much. In fact, I’m kind of doing that intentionally to see how robust the handgun is. As I practice, I’m getting better and better at my shot placement so I know I don’t outshoot the gun (and that’s with a 100% stock gun), I’ve had no failures whatsoever with FMJ and JHP ammo, and I absolutely love the way the gun feels in my hand. YMMV.
Yes and Apex is developing a new locking block for the gun, but neither are available yet and, as I understand it, the first barrels won’t be available until at least June and the locking block has no eta at this point. Is this not correct?
And I do understand that you can send it back to them until they fix it, but, in all honesty, that’s kind of a pain in the a*s. I like the M&P .45, but, at this point,until bar-sto and Apex release their products, I think the 9mm is questionable. Better would be if Smith and Wesson would just take care of the problem themselves before the gun leaves the factory.
There’s more than five or ten people having the problem. Some choose not voice it on the internet. Some choose to just put the gun in their safe or sell the gun. Not to mention the people that never practice beyond seven yards because they think every defense situation is going to be within that distance. Those people are not complaining because they have no idea whether or not the gun has accuracy issues at fifteen yards and beyond. They never shoot at that distance. And as Nickdrak said, some of the most respected shooters in the community are acknowledging the problem, so you can’t just say it’s five or ten people.
I JUST did the PPQ. The P30 looks and feels great, but for the cost… PPQ, they’re so close and $350+ priced differently.
IMO, the biggest things keeping me from the M&P are the accuracy issues which I believe will be worked out sooner than later. And the fact that you NEED to go to apex and buy a trigger kit for a brand new gun. Why doesn’t S&W just fix the trigger!?
I’ll buy an M&P9 down the line, when at least one issue is fixed.
There still tends to be an accuracy issue with the M&P9, groupings are unsatisfactory at 25 yards. Auto fowarding is still an issue as well. I have three M&P’s, two 9’s and one 45. the 45 accuracy is excellent at all distances although it auto fowards as well. All are 2011 preduction guns.
IMO 9mm Glocks and M&P 45’s
One of those guys “bitching” :rolleyes: about the lacking accuracy of the M&P9 is Kyle Defoor.
Chris Costa doesn’t bitch about it but he does recognize the accuracy issue. All of his M&P’s sport Storm Lake barrels begause of the accuracy problem.
Except drop in barrels don’t always fix it. If they have a smith fit one they would be selling like crazy.
Just to clarify, I was being sarcastic with the “bitching” comment regarding Defoor.