I was at my local gun store and I saw the one of the new FN M4’s and it really caught my eye. The fit and finish was excellent, I just havent really heard anything about them. It made me wonder if they use the same military barrel in their civilian rifles or the sub par pos they sell to other vendors?
You mean the same FN CHF POS barrels they supply to Noveske maybe BCM and others?
I would hope not but Ive been told otherwise.
Is the more important aspect of production for fuel whether it was all made by dinosaurs, or whether it was refined by Shell as jet fuel?
So what exactly do the refiners do to the barrels to make them better than the other dinosaurs?
Better extensions? Reject more? Better gas port? Coating/chroming?
Not saying there could not be differences, just wondering how you know they exist?
Went to order an LMT complete lower from a well known vendor. They indicated they did not carry them any more, pushed another well known vendor as “better”. Yet could not articulate how it was better. Clear to me the only thing better was the non-LMT cost more and probably had better margins.
Not that I don’t think Noveske makes good stuff, but if we are going to imply that barrels made on the same machine of the same materials must be inferior you need to be able to articulate why.
To my understanding the civilian FN M4s is a mid-range rifle. FN to my understanding due to contracts with the government can’t sell an identical mil-spec rifle to the civilian market. That said the FN should still be a good rifle that can provide you with decades of service. The barrel is made up of the same 4150 steel that the military rifles use and in terms of durability and accuracy should perform well.
Well, there are the m249 style barrels they sell to noveske, centurion, psa, and others. These can be great, they can suck. If the end manufacture specs a good incoming barrel, ensures it’s good, and finishes it correctly, they are great. Anything else is a crap shoot.
If you’re talking the std m4 barrels, I don’t know. Fn has 2 lines of m4 on the market. I don’t know if the barrels are different or not, nor do I know if they are manufactured to the same specs as they gov contract m4s. If they are the latter, I’d suspect they are great.
78-91 octane gas all comes from the same oil, and Tha same “dinosaurs” and plants. It also comes from the same refinery, (well it can, I don’t know for a fact it DOES). So why does it cost more? Why does it perform better? The chemical composition of 91 is different than 81 octane gasoline.
Manufacturing has inherent variability. As a consumer, noveske can request a narrow margin of variability at an increased price. That would explain why some fn barrels cost more than others. Testing, chamber quality variability, reject rate, etc are all factored in, and I suspect this all is the case. I read at least one of the top notch manufactures do spec certain requirements, I forget where though, but I believe it was from the manufacturer, or a reputable source.
This is standard manufacturing operation from carbon arrows to strip steel. Stuff made on the same line is sold at different prices to people with different specs. A huge misconception is that x product is cheaper than y but is of the same quality because it’s made at the same place. It may happen, but not as often as people like to think.
Thanks I figured they were nice. They are finished very well. That sucks about the barrel.
I think you are getting too wrapped up about the barrel. Just because the barrel may or may not be the same as the military guns doesn’t necessarily means that it is any less accurate or durable. The military often has particular standards for a variety of reasons which may or may not be useful to civilian shooters and you shouldn’t assume that the military barrel standard is going to be the best.
For example, it is well known that FN produces M4s for the military as well as produce barrels for a wide variety of manufacturers. I would not be surprised at all if one of the higher end offerings from Noveske or Centurion will outshoot the barrels put on FN’s military M4s. PSA and Spikes also use FN barrels at a lower price point. Although they may not be made to the same requirements as a Noveske or Centurion, they could still very well be equal in performance to FN military barrels.
I’m confused. Are you saying the barrels used by Noveske, BCM, etc are a POS, or does POS not mean what I think it means in this context?
Yea 10-4 on that. I think Im gonna pick that one up that I fingered the other day. I have no doubt its a fine rifle, just wondered about FNs various barrel offerings as Ive heard good and bad. I have a Bcm m4 with a socom barrel and its nice.
This is how I took the statement as well. I can’t wait for the explanation of the statement here.
I think you are very safe with any FN barreled gun that is properly assembled. I know PSA has had problems with some of their carbines but you have to remember the bulk of PSA’s offerings are not FN barreled guns. In addition PSA’s quality control is lacking. Although I used to recommend them for a value orientated shooter and no longer do because their offerings are very hard for an average person to understand and their quality control has gone down IMO. They sell at least 6 different types of barrels which only two are FN. They have the FN CHF barrels and FN button rifled (Premium line) as well as a 4150 chrome lined (not FN) but priced similar to the Premiums, a 4150 melonited, the American line which is 4140 melonited IIRC, and the PTAC line (low end). PSA, I think with their flavor of the month barrels create a lot of confusion for an average buyer and you really have to read the fine print with them to determine what you are actually getting.
Sarcasm. FN is supplying CHF barrels for some of the best makers in the market, to think they will put a pos on their own rilfes makes little sense to me.
Rgr rgr. My sarcasm meter didn’t register that one, and not being an expert on ARs, needed clarification there.
True but FN makes the barrels to their customers specs so therefore, they are not universally identical nor equal in quality.
FWIW I’m 100% happy with my recently purchased FN carbine (not an M4) after two range sessions in sub freezing conditions. It’s not really broken in yet but so far things are good.
I’m curious what is specifically in the TDP that FN could not legally duplicate or provide for civilian sales? Most of the things that people talk about when comparing one brand to another, like materials, spec tolerance,s and assembly techniques, would not seem to be things that FN can’t do on civilian rifles. So what is the secret sauce in the TDP? Colt doesn’t sell a civilian rifle that adheres 100 percent to the TDP either.
I am way out of my lane here but my thoughts on the matter are that:
- FN would love to provide a rifle as good or better as Colt at same price point or lower.
- Their first AR release fell far short for some reason. Why?
The TDP reason does not make a lot of sense to me, they are not providing M16’s but AR15’s. But I believe that one reason KAC SR25’s are so expensive is because they cannot sell them to civilians for less than they sell them to the govt. without getting into contract trouble. Does anyone know what the price of a military FN M4 is? Think about it, when did Colt slash prices on AR’s, after they lost the .gov contract, part of the reason for sure was they needed the civie market more but could it also be that they now free to drop prices since they were no longer selling them to the military for $XXX?