I live in Centerville, Ohio; a suburb in Montgomery County, Ohio. Montgomery County is overseen by the Montgomery County Sheriff’s department. Centerville, however has its own police department. No disrespect intended to the LE community but the Centerville PD has their nose in the clouds. I highly doubt the Centerville PD CLEO would sign off on an NFA item. I feel I have a better chance of convincing the Montgomery County Sheriff’s department.
Does it matter which department I go through?
If neither will go for it I know I can stick it to them by going the way of a trust (warm cozy feeling inside) but I don’t know much about doing it this way. This SBR project is really nothing more than a brain fart at this point.
Once I have my ATF paperwork approved, If I move to another city within Ohio, do I have to notify the local PD?
Start with your Chief, then go to the Sheriff(don’t tell him chief refused unless he asks), then look to your Chief Prosecutor/DA and Judges in your Jurisdiction. All are acceptable to the ATF but go thru the chain.
For that matter guys, if the CLEO has designated someone to endorse official doccuments, they can sign also. They may talk to the CLEO first though, who knows? When I looked into it, I had 3 options in my really small county of only 5000 people. I had the Sheriff, Chief of Police, and our County Attorney.
We have the Judge Executive for the county, but I dont know if he is capable? As far as judges are concerned, ours are regional, covering many towns and counties.
Step 1: You ask the following persons if they would sign; the
local chief of police (if any), the local sheriff, the local
district (prosecuting) attorney, the chief of the state police, and
the state Attorney General. The CLEO can delegate the signing
duty, for his convenience, if he wishes. Ask that they refuse in
writing, if that is what they will do. You may be surprised, one
might sign. That list of persons comes from 27 CFR sec. 179.85,
which is the regulation that created the law enforcement
certification requirement for Form 4’s. 27 CFR sec. 179.63 is the
companion regulation for Form 1’s. The rquirement is NOT in any
statute passed by Congress. Although not listed, and ATF will NOT
designate federal officials as also acceptable (see below) other
persons whose certification has been acceptable in the past
include; local U.S. Attorney’s, local federal judges, local U.S.
Marshals, and local supervising F.B.I. agents. Other local
federal law enforcement agents might also work.
Step 2: Copy the refusal letters, and send the copies to the NFA
Branch of ATF. Some CLEO’s may refuse to even provide a response
in writing. Just indicating that the CLEO refused to sign, and
also refused to provide a written response, should be sufficient.
Ask ATF to designate other persons whose signature would be
acceptable, as the ones listed in the regulation would not sign.
They are required to do this by the same regulation, it is the
‘safety valve’ for when none of the designated persons will sign.
ATF will almost certainly say that they will accept the
certification of a state judge who has jurisdiction over where you
live (same as the chief, D.A. and sheriff in step 1, they have to
have jurisdiction over where you live, although the regulation
doesn’t say that, just the Form 4) and who is a judge of a court of
general jurisdiction, that is a trial court that can (by law) hear
any civil or criminal case. No limit as to dollar amount in civil
cases, or type of crime in criminal cases. No small claims court
or traffic court type judges, in other words. Let’s assume the
judges refuse.
Step 3: get back to ATF, Send them copies of the rejection
letters, if any, and ask that they accept a letter of police
clearance, or a police letter saying you have no criminal
record/history with them, in lieu of the certification, together
with your certification that you are OK, and that the weapon would
be legal for you to have where you live. They will either respond
OK, or with more persons to try. If you reach the point where they
will not accept the police clearance letter, and not designate
someone who has not turned you down, you can sue, if the
certification is for a Form 1, or the transferor (seller) on a Form
4 can sue.
Thanks for the replies. I figured I would start with some well worded emails to the appropriate people and go from there.
If going the trust route can anyone provide some detail of what that means and how it works? I don’t own a small business and I have no corporate ties and I have no personal/business relationship with an attorney. An attorney is necessary to set up a trust, no? How do I go about finding one who deals with these kind of things?
Not trying to be an ass. There has been plenty of discussion here about trusts. How they work, are set up, etc… Some people say you need a lawyer, some don’t. That’s for you to decide. In any case it is much simpler than the CLEO route.
You don’t need to be a business or corporation in order to have a trust.
You will never know until you ask. I’d sign for you but youre gonna have to move!
I could have asked the local Chief, Sheriff or State’s Attorney to sign for me. I am friendly and on a first name basis with all of them. I just did not want to have to ask. I liked gpomh the trust route. I added my wife an son as trustees so they can use the SBR’s with out me if they want to.
I know OH trust law changed recently although I don’t know what the change was. My concern is an eventual change that would void my trust and make my SBR ownership illegal. Is this likely?
Its apparent that once a trust is set up, getting NFA items is actually pretty simple. From the other threads I’ve searched I see people are using quicken software to set up their own trusts. Obviously I need to know the rules specific to OH and the smart answer is to consult an attorney. A quick google search found an attorney in Columbus that deals specifically with trusts for NFA and he quoted me $600 for the service. They claim their trusts are set up specifically to handle NFA items, is that kind of verbiage really necessary? My local FFL is also a class 3 dealer so I plan on talking with them.
As far as using Quicken software, I’ve used Willmaker 2011 and it doesn’t even have the option for a Revocable Living Trust. I had to go back as far as the 2007 version to create a Revocable Living Trust. The software supposedly updates to reflect legal changes so 2007 is a bit outdated for my comfort.
How have you guys created your trusts? Anyone with any experience in OH?
