I am a new owner of a MK12 with an 18" stainless steel barrel. I am curious what the differences might be in cleaning and maintaining this type of barrel as opposed to a chromed or other lined barrel typically used in a non-precision AR. Are there different tools that are required or recommended to maintain accuracy? Tools that should definitely not be used (e.g., certain solvents, brass brushes). I would hate to mess up my new rifle from the get-go with improper cleaning.
In doing further research on the net, I have found articles saying to use only bronze brushes, never stainless, while another articles says absolutely never use a bore brush at all. A note from Douglas Barrels Inc. that came with the rifle says that if you use a wire bristle brush in a SS barrel, do so with care. What is a guy to do?
One guy says use Shooters’ Choice copper remover - another says never use ammonia based solvents on SS barrels.
Just curious what you guys use on your 416 stainless barrels and how often you clean it.
A nylon bush is another option and very few strokes are needed. I clean before ever shooting the new rifle, after the first range trip, and then at around 400 rounds (SPR barrel). You will get a hundred different opinions - and there are several big ass threads worth using the search button to find. Noveske’s is as good as any, IMO.
The biggest thing is don’t over do it - you will cause more damage from a poor and heavy cleaning than you will shooting the gun dirty. A little copper in the barrel is good - and certainly better than stripping it on a regular basis. (IMO, YMMV, etc.)
In general, shoot more and clean less. You likely will have to clean a lot less often than you think. But, eventually the time will come when accuracy will drop off. When it does:
Here’s an older post of mine that is somewhat relevant here, although it focuses on making specific product recommendations rather than outline a procedure.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=91357
I have my own idiosyncrasies when it comes to cleaning, as I think most precision shooters do. We’re anal, type-a, detail obsessed people by nature, so everyone will have their own little methods and quirks. Instead of typing out what exactly I do, I’ll just link you to Krieger’s maintenance section, which should answer most any question you have. There are few companies in the world that have as much experience and knowledge about precision barrels as Krieger, so you can place high value on their advice compared to the endless pages of bullshit on the internet about barrel maintenance.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm
Hope this helps.
Great info in those links. Thanks!
One piece of info I got from someone at KAC was to clean and defoul a new barrel after each 5 shot group. The idea is that keeping copper out of the barrel lets successive bullets smooth the steel of the bore rather than just burnish any copper deposits. The Krieger guide seems to hint at that( even mentioning a “fire one shot and clean” regimen), but didn’t explicitly recommend it.
Seems as if you guys don’t do anything like that.
I think this thread is more directed toward routine cleaning as opposed to break in.
I think break-in depends on the finish of the barrel to start with, some won’t need it, others may see a benefit.
For routine cleaning, I remove carbon until things open up. If I notice groups getting bigger, I’ll strip all of the copper.
The intresting thing about removing copper is that I’ve always noticed slightly bigger groups to start. After a few rounds things settle back down.
My routine cleaning does not involve trying to remove copper deposits.
Unless the rifle will be fired say less then 4-5 times and then cleaned and copper removed then its a waste of time.
More and more the tactical (not bench rest) are shooting 300 or so rounds before cleaning. I have a WOA 18SS barrel. I pay it no special attention, I clean whenever I get around to it.
IMHO, use whatever you want to clean it. Get a a good guide, I use nylon brushes. Get a coated cleaning rod and I don’t worry about copper, maybe once a year.
As was already said, you cleaning the shit out of it will probably do more harm than a little copper. If accuracy goes to shit, clean it.
I clean my 2 Noveske stainless barrels approx. every 500 rounds. So, far I have noted very little copper build up. I essentially follow the guide linked from the manufacturer. I always use a coated rod and bore guide and use Hopes 9 and swedes 7.62 for cleaning.
I agree with others that excessive cleaning is not very beneficial.
SkiDevil
Don’t pull the brush back after you push it through from the chamber.
Just pop it off.
Other than that, there are lots of options.
Todd Hodnett has stated that the copper deposits act as a bearing surface and when you strip them out, the next few shots might be of normal POI because the copper deposits are reforming.
I don’t personally own any precision rifles, but an Mk 11 Mod 1 upper from Centurion or High Caliber Sales looks like it’ll be a gateway drug into precision shooting. I’m looking at getting one before too long.
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If you thoroughly clean / de-copper the barrel after every range trip, you’re almost certainly over-cleaning. If by clean you mean run one or two oily patches through the bore and not actually stripping it, then that’s fine.
A standard 3 piece rod is also one of the worst possible tools for cleaning a precision rifle barrel. The female side connections tend to splay open ever so slightly and drag / scrape inside the bore. This is why single piece, coated rods are universally recommended for precision rifles. You should also be using a bore guide. When it comes to cleaning precision, stainless barrels, the standard cleaning mantras don’t apply. There’s a right and a wrong way, and unless you’re using a one-piece coated rod and a bore guide, I’m sorry to say that you’re doing it wrong.
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Okay, there’s nothing wrong putting a light coat of oil in the bore after every session. When I’m in corrosion conducive environments I do the same thing. Like everything else in precision shooting, I just collect data on how this affects POI for the first few shots. The effect is usually negligible.
I thought you might have meant a complete stripping / de-coppering, which is why I brought it up.
I’m not trying to pick a fight here, but as far as your statement that using a coated one-piece rod with a bore guide is just MY way and you have YOUR way (which you said was a 3 piece rod)…
My way of adding 2+2 produces 4. Your way produces 5.
Personal preference is meaningless when there is a clear right and wrong answer. Again, I’m not trying to be a dick, but I just want the correct message to get through loud and clear. That message is this: do not use a 3 piece rod in a precision barrel, especially without a bore guide.
In case you don’t think I’m a sufficient resource (which is reasonable since we’re anonymous on the internet), here’s what some of the top barrel makers have to say about bore guides and rods:
From Krieger
"Q: Can you damage a barrel during cleaning?
A: ABSOLUTELY Damage is possible in many ways including but not limited to the following: · By not using a bore guide. Use a bore guide whenever possible to prevent damage to the throat of the rifling and nicks and scratches to the bore. [MY COMMENTS: The potential for this sort of damage is exacerbated by 3 piece rods, because of the female connection point issue. You can get away with not using a bore guide with a one-piece coated rod, but not with a 3 piece GI kit.]
From Bartlein
Always use a good quality, 1 piece cleaning rod. Always use a bore guide. More damage to a good barrel is done from cleaning than actual shooting. The first to suffer is the crown. The crown is the last thing the bullet touches when it leaves the gun. Any damage here affects accuracy no matter what.
From Noveske
We like the Dewey coated rods, a good bore guide. DO use a good coated rod. DO use a bore guide.
Sources:
http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/BreakInCleaning.htm
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/FAQ-c1246-wp3352.htm
http://noveskerifleworks.com/impdf/barrelcare.pdf
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Haha, yeah I guess they are 4 pieces. I generally just use them for stuck cases and clearing obstructions from M4 barrels, so I don’t mess with the handle, which is why I think of them as 3 piece kits I guess.
Hey guys, i tried the search button and couldnt quite seem to find an answer regarding what I need to know.
I have my first stainless steel barreled AR and want to know if it is safe to use a bore snake to clean it. I saw a post where one guy said he wouldnt let a bore snake near his weapon but did not say why.
At any rate is the bore snake fine to use, or should I just stick to patches only.
Thanks
You clean an SS barrel just like you would clean any other barrel. A bore snake would be fine for a quick swabbing out of any debris that made its way into the bore but to really clean a barrel I suggest using a proper cleaning kit. Important thing is not to damage the crown and avoid using the wrong products like anything with PTFE/teflon.