I have two complete chrome BCGs, a Microbest and a Daniel Defense that I am going to be using in a couple of Colt uppers.
I also have a few spare Colt phosphate bolts and cam pins.
Would the phosphate bolts and cam pins be a better or worse option in those carriers?
I gotta be honest, the only reason I like the chrome carriers is because I think they look cool with the port door open.
I’m a little bit hesitant to not use a Colt bolt.
From a good manufacturer id say there’s no real downside to a chromed bolt, in the past they’d have issues with the coating being poorly applied and flaking off, i trust DD as a manufacturer, you could keep the colt as a designated spare for the guns, and unless its a need to go gun replace it when it breaks, if it is a need to go gun then use the DD and shoot a fair amount through it to give yourself a good opinion of it to make sure the wear matched what you expect to see. Also some people like the look of a black bolt in a shiny carrier, I know I do, so thats up to you. I think either way the results would be good, if its an aggressively gassed sbr then maybe go the colt out of the gate, if its pretty much anything else then there’s probably not enough of a difference to make a difference.
My one Chrome carrier sucks at holding lube compared to phosphate. The finish is just too slick/smooth. I have another Fail Zero finish carrier that’s even worse.
I still run the carriers on range toys, but I definitely prefer phosphate for any serious rifle.
Why?
I have moved many cases of ammunition through non colt guns.
I really could care less who makes my gun; as long as it works. I’m the guy who checks that it works. Not ‘colt’.
A bolt can work until it’s doesn’t. I’ve had aftermarket bolts that worked up until they broke.
A bolt group is a super critical component. For someone that doesn’t want to research which ones are ok, picking a Colt or BCM is a safe bet.
I kinda get that. I carried a colt for work. I own a BCM.
Honestly the BCM has seen the least amount of rounds and needed the most amount of springs replaced.
All my PSA beaters that get sprinco from jump just run indefinitely. I guess I’m just saying that I have yet to get a part from a “second tier” manufacturer that worked for 200 rounds and didn’t last the life cycle of the part. if it works it works, and if it doesn’t; thats immediately obvious when you actually take it to the range and put some rounds on it. So I just have some spare BCG’s laying around and shoot my Tier 3 guns until they break. And they haven’t broken yet. My original PSA from 2013 is still rocking, and that bolt is easily past the ‘5k’ that the internet thinks an AR bolt can do.
If there was any real evidence of tier 1 guns significantly outlasting ‘commercial’ guns, I would probably be in the group that shoots enough to notice.
As a practical advantage, chromed bolts are easier to clean and see cracks in. It’s a good idea to inspect your bolts regularly if you need it to be reliable, regardless of brand.
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And less friction is bad how??? Not to mention less crap sticking to said carrier…
I actually agree with mark on phosphate being an ideal coating; because it really holds onto lube. I have always felt like the phosphate BCG’s absorbed some of the lube and then sweat it out when i actually get the gun hot. Whether or not this effect is simply my perception or an actual feature is another matter for debate.
I try to use heavier oil/light grease on slick coatings, the phosphate being as porous as it is definitely let’s it hold oil better. I think either is fine, but I tend to prefer surface treatments over coatings, since there’s not something to flake off, nitride has been good to me, haven’t messed with np3/dlc, but everything I’ve seen says they work fine. The nickel boron bolts I’ve had haven’t been shot much, but they did feel nice.
The original Stoner designs specified a chrome bcg.
Yeah. That’s what I’m noticing too.
The rifle has been leaned muzzle up against the wall for two days and all the oil that was on the bcg is now in the receiver extension and the bcg is almost completely dry.
I think I’m gonna pop the whole phosphate bcg in there and call it a day.
Carrier rails smooth out a little with wear. I prefer the “crap” to be suspended in the lube over sticking to the carrier.
My Chrome carrier works, but the Phosphate is better. The Robar finish will give phosphate a run for the money. It doesn’t seem to shed lube too much.
It also included a 12 twists barrel, and many other specs we’ve moved WAY past. Does anyone run a fixed carry handle A1 for their primary? (not that it wouldn’t work, but there’s more efficient set ups now)
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, as none of the things you listed have anything to do with the selected coating on the bcg. I’ve used phosphate, and chrome bcgs. They both worked great, but the chrome was much easier to clean.
The original reason they went from the chrome to phosphate was the coating flaking I believe, but the phosphate does hold oil better. With a modern bcg that has a properly applied coating I see no downside, the only change I’d make it a “stickier” lube then you would use with a phosphate bcg.
The point was just because the original design was chrome, that doesn’t make it the better practical finish. A properly lubed phosphate is no more difficult to clean.
The only hard part to clean on either bolt/carrier is INSIDE the carrier (if you choose to clean there), and they’re both chromed inside there anyway.
The original bolts and carriers were plated with a proprietary process called “Electrolizing”, a form of Thin Dense Chromium plating (TDC)*. There was only one place in the world in 1963 that “Electrolized” parts, and that was Electrolizing Incorporated of Los Angeles.
Shipping parts from Massachusetts to Los Angles and back, as well as the cost of the proprietary finish was high. Colt suggested that local platers could plate just the critical areas with industrial hard chrome cheaper and faster.
I always heard that the decision to go with phosphate was driven by cost, so I thank you for providing that information.
lysansder always has great info.
Does anyone know if the stuff the Daniel Defense and Microbest use is the TDP plating or is it industrial hard chrome?
I have several carriers that have been fired enough to not have any phosphate left on the contact surfaces. So what is ‘holding’ the lube there now? (at the places that would benefit from less friction)