As far as glass goes I would opt for the NF scopes. I own a NF for my Mk12 and an S&B for my M40A3. Both are nice scopes but the NF is a hell of a scope for a lot less than the S&B.
Tactical Operations is hard to beat…
First you need to decide if you want FFP scope or not. If it is not important to you then you cannot go wrong with a Nighforce NSX with Zero stop ( $1700 to $1800 ). Great bang for the buck. I have a couple and I am very happy with them
If you want FFP then its a whole different choice
The relatively new Nighforce F1 is only available in 3-15 power first off all. So if you want more mag then Nightforce is a no go
My personal opinion is that if you step up to the F1 ( for $2300 + ) I would rather go all the way to a S&B PMII .
I assume you are punching paper with this so the extra mag of the 5-25 is nice. This model is offered in MRad Double Turn. I much prefer the S&B Double turn than the NSX zillion turn ( In all fairness the NSX has more elevation adjustment )
The Hensolt is outstanding ( my buddy uses one ) but I don’t like the lack of zero stop and lack of optional fine recticle…important if you go FFP version of Hensolt. You will find that both the Hensolt and S&B P4 covers a significant portion of targe with up to over 20X mag. Its good for tactical purposes, but for punching small groups on paper the P4F ( fine version ) is much much nicer
Here are some pics I found on the internet
Hensolt at 16X FFP
S&B P4Fine
Don’t worry about too much mag vs clarity…these scopes are crystal clear even a high mag
I think the S&B 5-25 is just damn sexy ! Be aware that the PMII are expected to be on a sloped base…they even preset elevation adjustment at the factory for this
The 3-12s typically are on 20 to 28MOA…the 5-25 a whopping 45MOA for 338Lapua .
As far as rifle choice, the only 308s non customs I have are TRG-22 and Accuracy International AE MKII
I think the TRG-22 or AE are both good choices…you may not like the AE stock. If find the AE w/ 20" barrel is freakishly heavy…as heavy as my 27" TRG-42 in 338 Lapua ! It is kinda cool seeing your hits though with the AE. This rifle shoots better than I am capable off
Nice!
TRG 42, Right on regarding glass. If I might ask you a question. I read your post to say that the 338LM’s should be using a 45 MOA rail.
I ask cuz the “Badger Inc” guys instructed me to use a 20 MOA rail for my 338lm. I have to think your shooting much farther then me. Could you please explain why the big difference in rail MOA.
Will your 45MOA rail even zero at 100y.
Sorry to ask dumb questions, Im just trying to understand and learn when an oppertunity arrives.
Thank you in advance.
D Williams
Its no a dumb questions…its actually a really good question. Most of the S&B PMIIs have only 56MOA of elevation. This is not enough to get a 338LM to 1500+yrds. Even a Leupold MK4 / Burris Tacticals etc have more !
A Nightforce NSX does not have this problem since it has over 100MOA
The exception to this is the MRad double turn ( most MRad PMIIs are single turn BTW ) on the 5-25 model that has 93MOA available
No problem with 100yrd Zero ( again…keep in mind that this PMII is set up expecting at least 28 MOA ). I generally have at least 200yrd Zero anyways since at under 200 yrds the 338LM is …well kinda boring
Other scopes would have this problem…example a Leupold with approx 70MOA elevation adjustment. This generally gives you 35MOA Up AND Down. With 45MOA initial slope you do not have enough for 100yrd zero
Best source for this info is Accuracy International since they put the slope on their mount ( not base ) . Their standard scopes are S&B PMIIs and hence all their mounts are made for these
See link :http://www.accuracyinternational.com/accessories_list.php
Notice that all the bases for double turn are 45MOA . You would assume that they know a thing or two about long range shooting with S&B scopes since they have S&B make “their” scopes
I use a NEAR MFg ( http://nearmfg.com/ )base and one piece Alphamount. Richard Near was the one that actually brought this fact to my attention when I was ordering the base / mount
I have been looking at getting the Remington SPS with the 20" fluted and throwing it into a JAE stock. Anyone here have the JAE?
Thank you for the info. Interesting I have two 5-25x56 PMII’s that are the F2F retical. Mine are both the double MOA after 32 moa I get a yellow turret color as a reminder that you need to dial it down to your zero.
I dug my 338 out of the safe and discovered that I have a 30 moa rail on my rifle. “Stiller Action”, they insisted that I use that rail to achieve the distance part.
have to agree that 100y with a 338lm is boring, in fact it’s a waste of ammo. This 338 has became my favorite rifle with very few limitations.
TRG42, thanks for answering my questions. Ive been down with a hip replacement and the pain meds seem to kick my ass when it comes to memory related stuff.
Im going to have to review your provided data closely and consider a switch to the 45moa rail.
Thank you.
D Williams
In a nutshell, my 338 w/ 250SMK and 200 yrd zero needs the appoximate following dope
1000yrds 28MOA
1250 yrds 42MOA
1500 yrds 61MOA
1750 yrds 86MOA
Your PMII has 56MOA so lets say 28MOA “up” It is no coinicidence that the Accuracy International rail is 28MOA of slope and Stiller recommended 30MOA…they are trying to give allow you to use all the PMIIs elevation for UP
If you have 30 + 28 = 58MOA of adjustment up, you will therefore run out of elevation just before 1500yrds…which is when you are subsonic anyways
If you never plan to shoot past this range then don’t worry about it
If anyone doubts the capability of 338LM over this range should not the new long distance record set by the Brits in Afganistan ( 2700 yrds ! ) using a Accuracy International AW
As far as boring at 100yrds go, my TRG42 will generally shoot ( when I am not closing my eyes in anticipation of the blast and recoil ! ) TIGHTER or SIMILAR groups at 200yrds
My hand loads are the 250 g Sierra’s with 92.4 VV N 165 powder. My duty stuff is Nosler custom load 250gr accubond at 2850 fps. I use it cuz an associate got me a couple box’s of 250 g and 225 g free after a bullet run for the 338lm for a tier one outfit out of the NZ. Nosler is also here in Oregon in Bend.
Not sure about the factory Sierra 250g as I haven’t shot any of that yet. Also I have a Vais brake, my rifle kicks very little. Maybe like a 243.
Thanks again.
D Williams