Hey team, I’m actually 50% complete with this project, I just thought I would share the process I went through in order to choose my new precision rifle. I’m sorry but I kind of started this project on a different forum, (MY bad, I’m sorry) but I did want to bring you guys up to speed on it and I could use some advice on how to finish strong…
It all started one sunny day here in So-Cal a few weeks back…
That is to say I have $7,000.00 budgeted for my next project, a long range tack driver!..
I’ve really wanted a bitchen precision rifle forever! And luckily enough I’m now in the position to get one
I figure I’ll need to spend around $2 - 3,000 on the scope & rings and $4 - 5,000 on the rifle. So I’m limited but should have enough funds for a great rifle and scope…
Choosing the proper glass…
I know this is extremely important here! So I don’t want to screw it up!!! I’m really looking hard at these 4 different scope / glass manufactures…
Any other suggestions from the team on a scope that will reach out and give me great clarity? that is for around 2-3k would be killer!.. It’s my understanding that I want clarity over magnification right??
Ok… Now on to the Rifles… This has truly been a joy and a great learning experience for me… I had the opportunity to read up on all of the bitchen rifles and WOW… there are a lot of them…
My initial thinking was to just have a custom rifle built from the ground up, but that will take another year. So I thought that I’m probably just better off buying one from a reputable shop instead… I’ve looked for used ones but I haven’t been able to really find any yet that have peeked my interest.
I started out by reviewing the following (top 10) 308 precision rifles that I’m aware of. Just about every builder is guaranteeing a .5 MOA accuracy. These rifles are all around 10 lbs, and have an affective range of 800mm.
Ammo is not a concern as I reload and have been doing so for the past 9 + years.
All of these rifles are exceptional but its time to break them down:
Too expensive:
• Nesika Tactical Rifle
• PGW Defence Technologies
• Surgeon rifles
Would be KILLER!.. But then I wouldn’t have enough for glass. So they are out based on the price.
Not for sale to civilians
• PGM Precision
Now lets remove the following:
• Stiller’s precision firearms as they only a few rifles each year and they are not accepting any new full rifle orders.
Now that leaves us with 5 strong remaining rifles to chose from.
• Long Range Rifles
• G A Precision
• USMC M40A5
• Desert Tactical Arms
• Accuracy International AE
Now with the 308’s reviewed it was time to turn my attention to the precision rifle’s that are chambered in the 388 Lapua:
This round has an affective range of 1,500 meters, works well on personal and small vehicles. The Average rifle weighs in around 14 lbs, 12-17 lbs is the actual spread… Ammo is extremely expensive! $70-120 per 20 rds!.. Ouch… but THANK GOD… I reload… I looked into it and all of the necessary equipment is available and I can defiantly reload / load this caliber.
Much like the process in the 308 its time break them down into different categories:
WOW… I didn’t know you were that much. No I can’t afford you sorry.
• PGW Defence Technologies
• Accuracy International AW
• E.D.M. Arms
Not for sale to civilians / couldn’t find it.
• PGM Precision
Don’t like the fact that my face is above the bolt, so I’m going pass on the Desert Tactical arms one. I have read mixed reviews about the Blaser Tac 2. some good some really, really bad, so it out!.
Ok, so now that leaves us with the following 2 (338 Lapua) contenders;
• Anzio Ironworks Corp
• Barrett 98B
Although the Anzio is rated @ .5 MOA which is .5 better the Barrett 98B I just cant get behind the looks of it…
The Barrett 98 is one sexy rifle, shoots GREAT, won the 2010 Rifle of the Year Award and is my top choice in the 338 category. I’ve even seen them used for $3,800.00
Ok so this is where I get stuck and could use your assistance team.
In my small feeble mind / my world this is how I look at everything in front of me, please feel free to straighten me out…
Purpose the rifle itself.
Local bench & BLM land shooting in So-Cal / LA area 300 - 800 yards
Joining the local long distance shooting club 500 – 1000 yards
95% of the time I’ll be shooting less than 600 yards
I think the 308 is a great choice as it fill 98% of the needs / requirements
If I stick with the 308 rifle at a 4k ish range and a 3k ish range for the scope I’ll end up with one really sick package… It should be a total tack driver… But!
It’s limited to the 308 ballistic / an affective range of 800 meters… But then again that 800 meters fills 95% of the required distances.
Now when I look at the 338 Lapua rifles (ie) the Barrett 98 B, I would need to adjust my founds to $4,500 for the rifle leaving me with 2,500 left for a scope…
Not a total tack driver but really close to it, I’ll have the tools for the 1,000 + yards shoots and I’m thinking that it will be the most fun to shoot…
I’m really close to pulling the trigger on the Barrett 98 for $3,800 I found and then purchasing a Nightforce scope for it and calling it a day…
But I was hoping to get your opinion on it before I moved forward.
So here are my questions (Man I took a long time to get here)
What other manufactures of the 308 should I be looking at?
What other manufactures that shoot the 338 should I be looking at?
What other scope manufactures should be looking at?
(Glass / scope) Is clarity more important than magnification?
(subject to personal preference) Would you get the 308 total tack driving package? Or the 338 with not such a great scope?
Thank you so much for your time everybody!.. I tried to do most of the initial research myself… Now I need your help / opinions…
Have a great weekend everybody and thank you again for your time
Link.
Note:
Time marches on a weeks goes on, many discussion are had about different rifles…
Part 1 of phase 1 is complete… Unfortunately its $2,840.00 over budget… (ahhhhh)….
Rifle $4,200
(1) Extra Mag $110.00
Cleaning kit $75.00
Tool kit $110.00
308 Conversation kit $1,500
(1) Extra mag $110.00
300 Win loading supplies:
300 win dies $65.00
300 win brass $90.00 (100 pieces)
700 of 150-200gr match (Berger, Speer, Hornady, Sierra) bullets $250.00
1,500 of the large rifle mag primers $45.00
Pelican hard case $350.00
Total spent $6,840.00 out of the original $7000 budget… NO scope!..
If you might be asking yourself… DUDE!!! WTF… how??? How could you f this one up so bad…???
Well….
I went back and re-reviewed my initial rifle requirements and simply found a rifle that will grow with me and can fully meet all of my requirements (90% under 600 yards) and (10% at 1,000+ yards)… After receiving some outstanding advise on many of the firearm forums and going back and doing yet more research, reading comparing specs, options, barrel life, known MOA’s, receiving yet more advice from some top shooters, etc, etc, etc… I decided to go with this rifle…
Yes I’m very HAPPY!..
Noooo…. I don’t want to give it up… Dam those stripes make me look FAT… LOL…
I ended up getting a Desert Tactical Arms (SRS) Stealth Recon Scout rifle.
Rifle # 1:
Chambered in .300 win
Affective Range 1,200 yards
Weight 12 lbs
Barrel 26 fluted, match grade free floating
Twist 1 in 10
Match trigger with weight and length adjustments 1 – 6 lbs
Overall Length 38”
Magazine Capacity 5 rounds
Rifle # 2:
SRS .308 Win Conversion kit
This conversion kit can be changed out in less than 60 seconds in the field with a 5mm allen wrench. The kit includes barrel, bolt, magazine and bolt stop, which shortens the bolt throw on the 308.
Range: 800 yards
Weight 11.4
Barrel Length 22”
Twist 1 in 11
Overall Length 31.5”
I think I made a fine choice, especially after having the opportunity to speak with few people who actually own and shoot this rifle all the time. Its one rifle, one scope, with many caliber options available.
Ok team, so that completes part one of the project, I’ll have the rifle in 10 days / on the 11th…
Now I need to turn my full attention to a scope for this bad boy…
But the bottom line is I need a scope, I’m out of founds and I’ll will be selling or rifle or two to get it…
I’ve pretty much decided on my scope, I’ll be getting the Schmidt & Bender, PMII 5-25x56 for it…
Anyway team, that’s my update… and your now up to speed with where I’m currently at… I’ll have the rifle next week, I’m out of $$$ and need a scope… Hahahaa…
Thanks again for your time everybody… I’ll post up some pics once I get the rifle in…
Ive enjoyed your journey and thought process into what rifle best represents your needs. I always find the journey fasinating and am often pleasantly surprised by the outcome.
Simply put your new rifle is very nice. Like these guys say, buy once cry once. It would be criminal to not put the very best glass out there on your new rig, you owe it to yourself to do that.
Your scope selection in my mind is even more important then the rifle. There’s an old saying in Africa.
“You can recognize an American by the quality of their rifle, You can recognize a European by the quality of his glass.”
Simply put glass is where it’s at.
Every scope on your list is solid. Every scope on your list is also expensive. Every scope on your list has a following and you will hear everybody’s personal choice eventually.
European glass. What do you get when you purchase European glass. More then anything you get 100’s of years of know how, they started this glass stuff. They are like EF Hutton. When they speak I listen.
Good luck to you on your future glass selection. Ive enjoyed following your quest for a top rifle, and the logic behind your stated goals to reach your final selection.
I haunt The Snipers Hide For Sale forum for scopes. Lots of glass for sales over there in really good shape and if you wait awhile it seems the config and price you want comes along.
Wow. That is a fine specimen you have there. Good choice no doubt, I think its hard to go wrong with a rifle once you have gotten to that price point. I mean, there is only so much you can do to make a rifle accurate, after that, its all you…and the glass. If there is anything to skimp on, it would be the rifle, since most shooters aren’t capable of taking full advantage of the rifles inherent accuracy. Don’t skimp on the scope. Since you have already dropped that much coin on the rifle, it would be a travesty not to put a high quality scope on top.
I looked through a family friend’s swarovski one night and the amount of light transferred has to be seen to be believed. Although, I had never looked through anything other than a $250 Nikon on my deer rifle before that so it might not be that shocking to you. Im pretty confident that if there was a full moon, I could have taken a deer that night.
If you can, you should check on the new S&B PM II that is 3-20 power. That will be the perfect scope. Another good alternative to what you’ve listed is the Vortex Razor HD, excellent scope with excellent build. The Razor will also almost color match your Desert Tan SRS. Check out opticstalk and snipershide for more info on the Razor. Lots of threads out there.
“You can recognize an American by the quality of their rifle, You can recognize a European by the quality of his glass.”
It was a fun experience learning about all of the different rifles and hearing all of the different opinions on all of the different forums…
Thank you for your time and have a great weekend
Yeppp… I find myself there more and more now…
Hey thank you Sir…
Yeah I hear you (don’t skimp on the scope)… Well I only have so much $$$ for it so I’m going to try to pick the right one. Of course which ever scope I pick I can guarantee you it will be the wrong one… Hahahaaa…
Thanks for the advise…
Cool… thanks for the heads-up I’ll do that… I’ve heard GREAT things about the S&B scopes, the 3-20 I don’t think will work for me thou. I’m really looking at reaching out there so I’m kind of looking at the 5x25x56 at the moment…
Yeah… It’s finally here… I’m just a scope away from playing with the big boys… hahaahaa…
I’m also still waiting on tons of stuff I’ve already ordered (308 conv kit, hard shell, sling, extra mags, cleaning kit, etc, etc) but at least I have the main piece home…
I was also able to find some time to load up some test loads… (190gr, 209gr and 220gr)
The official word on the barrel break in from DTA was this:
Shoot twice; clean it (repeat process) until 20 rounds have been fired. Then the barrel should be properly broken in…
And I made up this target stand for it, I figure it will give me plenty of stuff to shoot at regardless of the distance…
So I’m still in search for my scope and rings… I still don’t know what to get, I’ve got everyone telling me to get this one, no get that one, no I use this one and it’s the best… Hahhahaa…
Thanks for your time team and I’m really looking forward to getting out shooting with you all…
Accuracy guarantees, as currently implemented, are worthless and misleading.
Within the rules of most guarantees it would allow the maker to fire one hundred 3 shot groups and if one of them was 0.5 MOA, they could pass it.
The way to know with some degree of certainty is - fire at least 10 but ideally 25 or 30 shots and whichever has the lowest mean radius is the winner. And then it would be only for that one type of ammo.
I don’t know what the answer is. Good testing is very expensive and that is why no one really knows which of those rifles is best.
I believe that the smaller the MOA guarantee, the more of a BS artist the company is. I would almost lean to Blauser or Barrett for being the most honest.
If they were to cite a test of 10 or more round groups, then that would be somewhat realistic and still a lot easier on the maker than a more true test of 30 round groups.
Break in has always struck me as BS. I see guys all the time at the range who show up with their entire cleaning kit and fire one round, go through a twenty minute cleaning procedure, fire another round followed by a twenty minute cleaning procedure, and on and on. Then, finally satisfied that the barrel is “right,” proceed to shoot a sorry ass group.
I HAVE however witnessed and heard from some experienced and qualified marksmen that the J-B bore paste can be used effectively to bring surplus rifles back to life. That involves a break-in like procedure.
and your now up to speed with where I’m currently at… I’ll have the rifle next week, I’m out of $$$ and need a scope… Hahahaa…
