Carbon on Rails?

Dealers/ Manufacturers/ Regional/ Info Huldra Arms
1

I have a good friend that sent me a link to a corroded old piston system that magically rusted. The conclusion of the piston deniers on the thread was that all piston systems get eaten away by gas, the elements, Keebler Elves, etc. and the pistons systems were junk, because of course the only safe place to vent heat and dirt is in the action of any weapon.

All our stuff is either Melonited or Ion Bonded, and made of quality metal. So even if their unidentified piston system in the picture had any resemblance to our Adam’s system, it is a nonissue.

He was concerned that gasses venting under the hand guards could be problematic. He was wondering how our system vents the gasses; all of our materials indicate our gases get vented “forward” of the piston block, but undoubtedly the hand guards get dirty. He wanted to know how dirty.

We made a video of us cleaning our 5.45 after 4,844 rounds showing the limited extent of carbon on or around the piston block and the pristine condition of our operating system after almost 5,000 rounds of corrosive Russian Mil-Surp 5.45, with lubrication REMOVED and without cleaning. He was concerned more about what happens immediately behind the block. So I dug out the drop in hand rails we had on it; we replaced them in favor free float rails in order to do accuracy testing. (We will get around to that soon)

I pulled out a patch and put a little oil on it and wiped it down after 5,000 rounds. The pictures are the results. A little dirty, yes. Easy to clean, Yes. Dirt I would want in my upper receiver, No.

So that’s the answer to that question. A good question.

This person asking these questions is more enlightened than the average Mall-Ninja: “Milspec shouldn’t ever be the goal. That’s a static standard, that will never be better than average.”

I appreciate his independent thought; passing by the dogmatic defenders of the status quo and asking tough questions.

Stewart Mills III
Mills Fleet Farm
Huldra Arms

2

Yes, I did wipe down the inside of the rails as well. Not too dirty after almost 5,000 rounds.

Thanks,
Stewart Mills III

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I’m confused how a mil-spec AR will never be better than average?

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Hi, I am new to the forum and new to carbines all together. I was in FF a couple days ago and I had a chance to handle all 4 models. They all feel like a solid weapon. I am really interested in the 5.45 for the surplus ammunition. Has anyone used one of these for an extended amount of time besides the manufacturer? I am kind of weary about buying a $1k gun without any unbiased reviews, especially using corrosive ammo, but I think the huldra 5.45 will be my first AR.

5

First off, that was a quote, but a quote I agree with. If at any point in time, even if you have selected the best criteria to build any product, strict adherence to a specification or STATIC STANDARD will cause your product to become, by definition, obsolete, because it doesn’t allow for innovation. That is assuming you have the best design to begin with. To illustrate my point: Go back to the time when the M4 spec was standardized, pick the very best computer on the market at that time, Mac or PC. Is that computer still leading edge, or is it obsolete?

The Huldra 3 Gun Team was at Ozark 3 Gun Championships a few weeks ago. (Major shout-out to Dave for a first rate performance, made our team look awesome) We had bought some striped down major manufacture shotguns and used our skills and a lot of money to trick them out. At the end of the day even though they worked, you can’t turn a Ford F-150 into a Ferrari. The rest of the guys used our Huldra “custom shop” shotguns, I was using my favorite combat shotgun the Benelli M4. I love it, with a carrier comp tube, one in the chamber (which isn’t always allowed) and a ghost load I am at division capacity, but still it is not the right shotgun to perform at the level we should be performing at in 3 gun. …I love it though.

The reason why I am so into the sport of three gun, other that the adrenaline rush, is everyone is so damn nice. You won’t find a better group of folks. 250 of the most heavily armed, nicest folks you ever want to meet… and they got major skills. You go out to help set up steal between stages and the guys helping you are the best shooters is the world. It is cool to hang out with that crowd, everyone accepts everyone.

Anyway we decided it was time to upgrade shotguns for next season for the entire team. The best place to figure out what is the right equipment was there and then. At lunch we cornered Ben Fortin and the rest of Team Benelli at the back of their truck as they were headed to lunch. Ben is one of the best shooters anywhere and a 5th group special forces sergeant first class. Ben gave up most of his lunch time to go over everything about the Benelli M2 Field and what needs to be done with it to get it rigged for 3 Gun. Ben is super intense and a great representative for Benelli. After he gave us the run down on his equipment, how he uses it and recommendations for ours, he asked what shotgun I was currently using. “The Benelli M4, the same ones the Marines use” I said proudly. The good sergeant took exception; not with the Benelli M4, but with how I presented it. Ben explained while the Benelli M4 is a great shotgun, that if I am selecting firearms and equipment solely because that’s what the military is using I am going to wind up with a lot of substandard equipment. He told me about the guys that show up for the Carbine Classes he teaches with all the “Mil-Spec” equipment and then have to sell it off to get the right equipment. I don’t think Ben got much time to eat, he lectured me about the stupidly of thinking just “because the military uses it, it has to be the best.”

Special thanks to Ben for his time, and because of him we contacted Benelli and they sent Team Huldra 3 M2’s at a major discount.

I have never been in combat, never patrolled the streets, but I have spent a lot of time “sport shooting.” It seems that the only place folks are hung up on the whole mil-spec thing is on the forums. Everyone else wants the most innovative dependable equipment, there aren’t many that shoot more than serious competitive shooters, the stuff has to work and it has to work every time. Rainy, dirty, muddy the show must go on. We spent the entire match surrounded by Special Forces guys and “Civilian Contactors” shooing for various teams, they were not using Mil-Spec equipment! The 3 Special Forces guys (current and former) that shoot on the Adams Arms 3 Gun team only use “Mil-Spec” rifles when they are forced to. They even made “that face” to punctuate the point.

Thanks,
Stewart Mills III
Huldra Arms
Mills Fleet Farm

6

If you email your email address to: service@huldraarms.com we will send you a article in “2011 Buyers Guide: Black Guns” about the Adams Arms 5.45 upper that our complete rifle is based on. There are a few variations/upgrades that have gone into our rifle and subsequently Adams upper since that article was written but it will give you a unbiased review of the basis for our 5.45 products.

7

nbsdsailor,

You wouldn’t go wrong buying one in the 5.45. I took part in the 4000 rd count in the 5.45 model that you see in the videos. Let me also say that I am not a paid employee with Huldra Arms or Mills Fleet Farm. I am a current LEO, former military. I do not by any means consider myself or claim to be an expert in firearms. I am a certified Glock and AR armoror(I know that doesn’t mean a lot either). I have been shooting since I was about 7. Anyhow, I was brought on board with the Huldra as I was skeptical of the piston gun. My thought was why does the DI gun need fixing. It performed just fine for me in the Iraqi desert as long as it was kept lubed. I had also read numerous articles on the piston kits that were made to put on DI guns and how the parts may wear as the DI gun was not made for those parts(example would be the bolt carrier and the tilt that is caused by the piston system on the DI carrier). I had even sent some of these articles to the head of Huldra Arms. With that said he and I had a few discussions. He did hand me a Tac Elite to try out. I was impressed by it. It is very well made. I haven’t put it on paper other than zeroing it but it seems as if it it just as accurate as my DI guns(Colt, LMT, S&W and a frankingun that I built from quality parts). I only have 500 rds through it. Next week I will be tripling that number as I will be taking a 3 day combative carbine course by Trident Concepts. With the above said, will I get rid of my DI guns? No not at all. Will I get another AR in the future? Yes, I will and it will more than likely be the 5.45 upper or complete rifle. I don’t think you would go wrong with the 5.45 model.

After next week you will be able to see more results of the Huldras as some others will be running them in the course too.

Good luck with your choice. Don’t hesitate to ask more questions. A lot of them may already be answered on previous posts under Huldra on here.

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It may be more semantics but I think we are discussing different things.

You contend that weapons can be made better than mil-spec. I completely agree. And doubt many on the forum would dis-agree. I believe there was a thread from grant on the very subject.

I contend that with the current plethora of low quality AR like rifles being made for non-military/LE that Mil-spec is still a well above average standard of quality.

I would submit that the tdp does not restrict innovation nearly as much as your computer analogy would describe. Mil-spec is about ensuring repeatable high quality products. They might not be the latest thing but they do the job that needs to be done and ensure innovation/experimentation don’t detract from that. To go back to computers look at the ones on the space station or fighter air-craft. Many of them are slower than my cel phone. But they are hardened against emps, shock etc and test to make sure they don’t fail during a worst case scenario. The slower computer in a F16 is better than average at the job it does than my dell laptop would be.

The hang up is when you have door kickers discussing weapons amidst competition shooters. Best to my buddy in A-stan may mean it puts up with a horrible environment and he can still trust it’ll go bang accurately and save is life. Mil-spec does this. To a comp shooter having something more “cutting edge” that gives an advantage (real or perceived) during a three gun match may be more important that the off chance something malfunctions during a round. It means a lot less to me when my range toy needs a little help than someone who has a gun that needs help while on a two way range.

9

Surprisingly, I agree with you. Mil-spec is the floor, not the ceiling for our products. Although, we feel the Huldra/Adams operating system, as incorporated into our rifles, has been proven to be a superior innovation in both tactical and competition environments.

Thanks,
Stewart Mills III
Mills Fleet Farm
Huldra Arms

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Two people agreeing on the internet. Who knew it could happen :lol: