First of all this is not a thread about pistons vs DI.
So the Army has another trial going on for a replacement for the M4. Some here have stated that the top contenders right now are the H&K and the new Colt piston rifle.
If one of those gets chosen and adopted would that then be the standard piston system after that? Do you think other companies would be inclined to change their pistons to conform to “military standard”? Would they even be able to with patents or does a contract for the .gov make the design free to everyone?
I thought that was a SOCOM thing? And they decided to ditch the Mk16 and just purchase more 17s.
I don’t recall the reason they ditched the 16. About two months back, I was attending a funeral for a friend who served with naval special warfare, I talked his commander for a while- he stated that his guys didn’t care for the 16 all that much, but didn’t give a reason.
I’m fairly sure it’s the CM901 (DI gun!) and not the Colt piston rifle. I may be wrong. But the piston is just for in case the ARMY goes with enhancement over a new system.
I’ll also mention the SR-15 is apparently in the running, and that’s a DI gun.
My understanding is that KAC pulled out of the competition along with a few other companies, like LWRC, because they don’t have the production capacity.
Knights never submitted the SR-15 and Colt never submitted the CM901. Apparently Colt didn’t want to give away all the technical specs on their newly designed CM901 platform so they went with their piston rifle instead.
I can’t say I blame either company for their decisions.
You have to remember even if a company wins this portion of the improved carbine trials then it will be tested against the current M-4 to see if it is the great leap in technology that they are willing to spend the bang for the buck in a production contract. As far as I know ( Im sure I will hear all the speculation at Small Arms this year) there is no money forcasted into the POM for a production contract.
Also the U.S. govt will own the TDP and will pass it out to whomever does get that production contract or contracts the Govt wants multiple suppliers.
the Army plans to find 1 piston gun then pit it against the M4A1 to see if the new rifle will offer a big enough upgrade to make it worth the cost of changing out a fleets main weapon.
if they do choose a new rifle the TDP will be given to 3 different companies in the US to make parts for.
but in the end nothing will come of this competition except maybe some new PIP’s for the M4A1 since nothing out there right now is big upgrade from the M4A1’s, if at all any upgrade its a small incremental upgrade(if that)
on the topic of the MK16, SOCOM stopped procurement of it because it did not offer anything over newer M4A1’s.
OK I think many are misreading what I wrote or more than likely I didnt word it correctly.
Lets say hypothetically the Colt piston gun wins and beats the new M4A1 and becomes the next service weapon. Do you guys think this would cause all the piston gun manufacturers to switch to the new “military standard”? One of the big draw backs of the piston AR is that evryone uses a different system. Do you think the industry would standardize on the military system like they do now with the DI guns?
If the Govt buys a piston rifle and passes out the TDP to at least 3 major manufacturers then yes the Govt TDP will become the standard to which all others will be judged by. Do not hold your breath on this. I personally think that the current M-4 will see a few up grades not a piston other than that its what we have now and will have for some time to come.
If BIG ARMY chooses a new rifle and it a piston type M4, there will be a TDP written and the company(s) that were awarded the contract would be in control of it (and the info will NOT be shared).
With that said, companies will reverse engineer it as best they can, but at the end of the day it will not be equal (for many reasons).
But they could be incrementally better, too. At least on paper because what manufacturer could afford to thoroughly test their products without the money backing their validation plans??
Exactly my thoughts. Just because a company reverse engineers it does no mean it will be worse. I guess that would depend on the company doing it. If a top of the line company did it , they could probably reverse engineer it almost to perfection.
You can bet there will be a constrant written into all of the companies TDP’s that they can not be sold on the commercial market as part of the TDP Restrictions passed to the Government.
I think alot will be learned when the test results are released. Many manufacturers will take the data and try to improve upon them as these test results will set a new standard for the next few years