Ok, Im starting to put togeather my First AR, it is a semi-build.
I bought a PSA stripped lower, MOE LPK, PSA Premium BCG, and MOE stock/buffer kit all from PSA this weekend due to good reviews and the sale they had going on.
Now the Upper is where im having an issue.
Im looking for a 16" Mid-Length flat top chrome lined with a 1:9" twist. Complete Upper Reciever assembly (sliding in the BCG is about all im comfortable doing, maybe attaching the handguard if it doesnt involve taking front sight off ect…)
I see basically all the better manufacturers only offer 1:7" twist, which I think is crazy. I would think that about 80% of people who buy these probably shoot 55gr or 62gr ammo.
I know people will say 55gr in a 1:7 is fine, but id like to avoid that argument, I dont agree and will never be buying/reloading anything over 68gr.
So can anyone reccomend an upper meeting those specs? This is what I have come up with, and while im leaning tward Del-Ton, I know their not always considered GTG by some people, but they just seem to meet the criteria im looking for. It seems only the lower tier manufactuers offer the 1:9" twist. Which maybe should tell me something, but maybe im just stubborn.
The options ive seen so far:
Delton 16" mid-Length, Chrome Lined. I can order without BCG and slide the PSA right in. Can also chose handguard upgrade. My thinking is how bad can the barrel/chamber/upper be?
RRA, a bit more money, but if its better im fine with that.
J&T Distributing, apparently same as doublestar. their website offers almost zero information. not sure about quality
CMMG, I have heard ok things. same money as RRA and would have an extra BCG like RRA as well.
Im new to all of this so if im overlooking something or being totally retarded, go easy one me.
Number 1, your not retarded. As far as the lower is concerned, youve done pretty good. I would run your lower with confidence.
With your upper, your going down the wrong path I believe. One month ago yesterday, I shot a 1.25" group, out of a 11.5" BCM standard barrel, at 100yds, using Hornady 55gr TAP FPD, and a Aimpoint Comp M2. My rifle is 1/7. I highly recommend going 1/7. Dont read too deep into the 1/9 handles 62gr and less, 1/7 is 62gr and up crap.
If I were you, I would look at a quality upper from BCM, DD, Colt, or LMT.
Buying a lower quality upper to suit a perceived need is not a good idea. If Delton/RRA/J&T/CMMG/et al are what you’ve narrowed your choices down to, presumably after research, then you should be more worried about learning what quality is than worrying about (what are in your case) arbitrary differences such as twist rate.
As an aside, the frequency and similarity of posts like this by new members has me really wondering if someone is making an organized effort to troll the shit out of M4Carbine. Why would anyone do that? So that they could point to all the “silly” shit being posted on M4Carbine as an example of how it is “just like all the other sites.”
The following sentence screams troll at me.
“This is what I have come up with, and while im leaning tward Del-Ton, I know their not always considered GTG by some people.”
If you’ve read anything at all on this site, then you know what the answers are going to be. People are generally going to point you in the direction of Colt, LMT, Noveske, BCM, DD etc.
If you want 1:9, look at Smith and Wesson or experiment with the other companies (Delton, Bushmaster, RRA, DPMS, Doublestar, CMMG) you’ve listed.
If you buy it and it suits your needs, fine. If you find out later that it doesn’t, you’ve paid to learn a lesson. Sometimes in life, you have to pay to learn…
I am inclined to close this thread for the simple fact that you posed a question which you already know the answer to. If you want 1/9 there is plenty of garbage out there to suut your needs. The probable exception is S&W.
I personally feel that 1x7 is the way to go and this isn’t based on on something I read. It’s based off of what I see when I shoot and when others with me shoot.
When I see groups that are anywhere from 2-3 MOA consistently with 55gr. ammo that tells me something. You don’t have to agree, but to ignore data is just pure silly.
The fact that the “lower tier” offer 1x9 does tell me alot. That they also refuse to look at cold hard facts. Just like they refuse to believe that castle nuts work loose, carrier key screws come loose, etc… ad nauseum.
I stated that I didnt want to argue about twist rates, I wanted opinions on what was best of the manufacturers that I listed, or if there were any others that I havnt seen with the specs I listed.
Even Grant from G&R who is highly respected here stated that 55gr from 1:7 starts to open up quite a bit after 100yards. I also own a .223 Bolt Action so I am familiar with the rounds performance.
I just wanted to give some background about why I was choosing what, but I guess I should have left all that out and just asked for opinions on the manufactures I listed, and asked for any other that I may not have seen.
If you read my post above, you’ll see that I kept my recommendations limited to manufacturers. If you want a 1:9 barrel, SW will probably be your most consistent bet. You might get ok results with the others as well, but it it will be more of a crapshoot.
Ok results doesn’t necessarily mean inaccurate, although it could be inaccurate. It means you might have reliability issues due to the parts not being built to a consistent spec (both dimensional and material), or the gun being assembled incorrectly.
I apologize for the hijack, but I’m with you on this and have noticed the same thing. Maybe the mods/staff can dig a little deeper and see if any patterns develop. I’ve seen some very purposeful attempts at pushing buttons similar to this in more than a few other threads. Not saying that is necessarily the case here, just that you’re not the only one who has noticed a trend.
I would not purchase any of the options listed. If you have done your research, then you would know that for just a little bit more $ you can move to a more quality upper. BCM, Colt, and DD are not that much more $. Save up and buy quality.
I think you’re doing this backwards. Instead of looking for an upper that offers a 1:9 barrel, you should simply start with a barrel and build a complete upper around it.
While you don’t wish to discuss twist, there is good reason to do so. Sierra has found that the 1:7 twist with the 69 gr Matchking reduces coning which gives the bullet a better in-flight BC with a low standard of deviation of velocity. The 1:8 also gave a good BC but a little higher SD. They noted a slight degradation of BC & SD with the 1:9 & 1:10 twists and a marked degradation with 1:12 (they were unable to test the 1:11).
What this means, it should open up your options a bit for finding a quality barrel that will give the performance you’re looking for. The 1:8 twist should work as well with lighter (actually shorter) bullets as the 1:9. My 1:8 Lothar Walther gave me a thirty shot group inside 7" at 300 yards with Federal 223 55 gr FMJ, shot from a fully loaded magazine. I didn’t wait for the barrel to cool between shots.
It’s also of my opinion that if you’re going to spec a chrome lined barrel, there is no reason to try to squeeze out an extra bit of accuracy with the shorter bullets by going with a 1:9 twist
Think you’re way off base here, why do you think newbies come here… some looking for help, like I was, and the others… looking to read all the silly chit being posted here… now back to the OP question for help… I don’t know the answer so I will just keep reading and hope I can learn something… or read some more of the paranoid responses…
when I was at Daniel Defense last year, they had a machine for making 1/9 barrels. it was not set up yet but I asked why they wanted to do that and they said people wanted it.
I’m guessing if DD is going to make one, it’s going to be a good one.
but I don’t get why we haven’t standardized on 1/8 to begin with…
to a degree, I agree with the OP’s reasons for wanting a 1/9 twist, he said he was probably never going to shoot anything heavier than 55 or 62 grains…
while 69 grains are at the ragged edge of capability with a 1/9 (some barrels will shoot them, some will not, depending…), at the other end of the spectrum, the very light bullets designed for varmint shooting favor a longer twist.
In all things, especially those related to shooting, I look for the sweet spot. there is never any really one best answer for all applications - only a “range” of values that is best for that application.
if all you shoot is a 55 or 62 gr. bullet, this is in the sweet spot for a 1/9. but if all you shoot is 62gr and longer, a shorter twist makes more sense…
regardless of the OP’s reasons, I find his reasoning sound…
agree 100% on the 1/8 idea
i bought 1 dozen, 16" 1/9 skinny(lite wt bbl) at shot from d.d. to sell, there must be a market. since i have sold 8 with no advertising to friends who were there. i use mostly colt skinnies but those are running out.
adco just a cut a1/9 skinny down to 11.5" for my personal training upper. runs 101% reialble and very accurate. with my surefire can or with out.
note i am not a big m.o.s. guy. Am expecting to shoot at 300 yd and in to stop a threat and can do that with these bbls.
why do this. think about it. only a few of posters here, really have access to 75.gr. t.a.p. a good many buy what ever is chaepest, walmart,a.i.m., russian crap. its all 55-62 gr. iragigunz is correct on 1/7. but those of us who use them for o.t.d., real world work also have a butt load of t.a.p./b hills etc.
i am willing to bet less than 10% here run anything close to that ammo. selling to 55 gr. usesers only makes good sense. it also make better groups for people to use in matches/3-gun etc.
now back to the OP question for help… I don’t know the answer so I will just keep reading and hope I can learn something… or read some more of the paranoid responses…