Not sure what the admin has planned, but where are we on the three areas?
Binary triggers?
Bumpstocks, I thought we had a final ruling on this and I can’t tell if someone was joking about the ATF having to give them back?
On Braces - there were all kinds of injunctions and rulings, and I thought they were still kosher- or the exact ruling was that the ATF didn’t have the authority to ‘ban’ them? If that is true, not sure how they could make them kosher to start with, but I’m not one to quibble. And of course, what is the status of all the ‘free’ Form1 guns out there?
I get braces. They have their purpose. Those other two things can F*** off as far as I’m concerned. They serve no legitimate purpose other than to make stupid assholes even more stupid. Pistol braces are legal.
I was just trying to think of all the NFA-ish type things that had cases going. FRT/Bi triggers and bump stocks can’t be used at my ranges. Pistol Braces are far more common and useful. So unless there is some local thing, they are cool for everyone?
Was that actually a procedural ATF thing, not a 2A thing?
So can’t be used at your ranges means they have no purpose and not useful?
To whom is it useful? Does it have to have a reason in order to be owned?
As an owner of both braces and SBR’s, anyone telling you that braces aren’t being used to circumvent NFA laws or to loophole concealed carry laws with permit holders for added firepower in bags is outright lying. Also anyone saying that braces are just as good as stocks or costs less than a stamp, is also lying*.
*I’m talking about functional ones that aren’t crap and closer to being an actual stock and not some flimsy POS. The Tailhook is the only one right now that isn’t absolute garbage. Subjective? Yep. Saying it’s cheaper than a stamp to use the cheapest brace out there? Also subjective meaning once again that there’s zero absolutes here.
To some the bumpstocks and binaries are the only way to loophole the fact that we can no longer purchase machineguns or manufacture them for private ownership after the 86 NFA Act.
I didn’t know that we needed a reason to own them now, in order to have them. I thought that being American and having the 2A says we can, period? Or are we now no longer okay with because we can reasons?
Anyway, it’s all a straw man to argue about the purposes of these things that the OP wants to know if they are all still kosher for us. To argue against them being legal to own is toxic. We already have sole issue voters whom I know still didn’t vote for Trump over BUMPSTOCKS. We need to stop alienating them. What if the next elections are closer in being a tie? These are the people we will NEED.
I just asked about the legal standing on these three because I even though I follow a couple of gun lawyer on youtube and X, I can’t keep them all straight.
Useful means having a use. Even you state that some shoulder braces are better (more useful?) than others. I have enough trouble getting to public ranges that limit Bump/FRT (or even NFA FA items), let alone finding public land. Nothing against the bumpstocks, though I could only afford to run them with 22lr…
I find all three legal issues DELISH because they attack silly laws based on gear and not on the person that can misuse anything.
There are all these cases and legal wrangling. I keep those separate from the reality of what is right- but those two spheres do interact. Luckily we now have the legal stuff on our side and the reality or our rights.
I don’t live where you live, I am 16 minutes out from the national forest. When we do have fire restrictions our local outdoor range limits it because full auto tends to destroy things like target frames and eats away at berms protecting target stand holders. They do have an NFA range but those targets are AR500 and the stands for them are also made of AR500 as well.
And FA does have a use if using as part of a team for a base of fire or for a final protective fire but on a solo basis makes a good get off of my lawn against multiple intruders if the position is a good one with clear fields of fire on overwatch. Honestly don’t even need a use for it to say it’s useful, just because we can is the only reason our fellow Americans would need.
Plus it’s fun at the range where new or unexperienced to FA replica shooters get initiated and their smiles are worthwhile. I don’t own a binary or a bump, by the way.
As for braces, the only “usefulness” they have as far as I am concerned with, is to prove that SBR laws are stupid/outdated that some politicians need to be convinced of how common use it they are right now and not the gangster fears of yesteryear. Heck the US Government shortened the barrel length limit on rifles to 16 inches from 18" in order to make some minor money and get rid of hundreds of thousand of surplus M1 Carbines. So it can be done, but some butts need to get in motion for it.
HE1345, With friends like you on our side, we don’t need any enemies.
Bumpstocks, braces and binary triggers are all perfectly legal at the federal level per the letter of the law. That doesn’t even get into the 2nd Amendment aspect of their legality. Anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment and/or the law in general should absolutely have a problem with federal agencies declaring them illegal without the law to support their declaration. Perhaps you should join the gun grabbers and lobby for just the things that you don’t have use for to be made illegal. Then you can wonder what happened when other gun owners don’t support keeping the things that you like legal. As for me, I’ll support efforts to fight government overreach and keep all of them legal.
[quote=“Bret, post:8, topic:484586”]
Perhaps you should join the gun grabbers and lobby for just the things that you don’t have use for to be made illegal. Then you can wonder what happened when other gun owners don’t support keeping the things that you like legal.
[/quote] This right here!
This is exactly why I never commented on it when asked to do on during their comment periods or write letters and emails. When being attacked for not liking what they liked, my refusal was myself giving them the finger in return.
I understood their arguments. However my argument at the time wasn’t for the letter of the law, it was about functionality of a tool which is why I preferred stocks to braces. They took it as being statist, boot licking, and all the other vilifying that made me do exactly what you had stated, I didn’t support them when the ATF was after braces. I am still at a loss as to how they made a straw man out of something that was discussed in regards to functionality.
Our community is our own worst enemy at times. Lose the emotions and learn how to communicate and not slide or derail an argument based on which is more functional into something entirely something else. People want us to support braces or other things, then start supporting us who want stocks, binaries, or bumps. they can’t have it their way only as it’s approaching fudd territory to be blunt.
So because I think bump stocks and binary triggers are f****** stupid I’m anti gun? I actually legitimately train. I have no interest in gimmicks. Also, I never said they should be illegal. I said they were stupid, which they are. If you showed up to my range with a bump stock or a binary trigger, you would get kicked the f*** out so fast. It’d make your head spin. If you enjoy that kind of childish nonsense then go for it. But since this is America and I actually support true freedom of opinion and speech, I’m entitled to my opinion that those are f***** stupid, just like you’re entitled to your opinion that they are not.
So, you think because you’re some super operator range master that you’re the one to determine what’s legitimate and what’s a gimmick? I’m so glad that I have a range on my own property so that I don’t have to deal with know-it-all range masters who think that they know what’s good for everyone else. You’re the one who implied that you don’t care if the government bans them by stating that they could F-off. If that’s not what you meant to convey, perhaps hit a few more keys next time. For the record, I actually prefer stocks to braces and full autos to bump stocks and binary trigger. I’m fortunate that I can afford what I prefer, but most can’t. Therefore, I don’t begrudge people buying what’s perfectly legal. Like I said, with friends like you, we don’t need any enemies.
Your entire argument is BS. And why are you trying to use yourself as an authority figure to be listened to, and just why the F would we want to go to “your” range anyways when it’s being run by a fudd? And another question. You train? Is this supposed to mean that the owners of those things do not train or have trained? I know people who don’t own those things and definitely have not trained. I also know people who do own these things and most likely are more trained that YOU. So I am finding your argument to be very weak.
Lemme just try to lower the temperature here by reminding everyone of “Rights vs Needs”.
There was a country run by not Enumerated Rights but “Gov Will Give You What It Deems You to Need.” It was called the Soviet Union. Ask millions upon millions of dead Russians, Ukrainians and other Wrong Side of the Curtain-ers how a “Bill of Needs” worked for them.
Let’s all step back, take some deep breaths, calm down and come at this with cooler heads, mmmkay?
You’re likely good to go with binary triggers, but that hasn’t been completely sorted out in the courts like the previous two (unless I missed something).
SBRlife, Sorry about that. I didn’t pay close enough attention to who posted. Your response makes perfect sense. Please accept my apology. I’ve edited my response to remove the part that was incorrect.
At the risk of being pushy… Thank you, sir. That kind of “cleaning up one’s own messes” is what we like to see–responsible users make the mods’ lives much easier and less stressful.
Pay attention, people, this is how you swallow your pride and walk back a mistake.
Jesus. I feel like I’m watching a trailer trash romance battered wife cycle… I hate you. I forgive you, I love you. Get a private berm and go ‘full auto’ you two….
