As far as I’m concerned, this is a no no… am I thinking clearly?
See this excerpt from a fudd forum:
“I’ll repeat that it is not a crime to possess a pistol with a carbine buffer tube and a stock which may readily slide on said buffer tube. In fact, since reg 2011-4 it makes sense to build a pistol with a carbine buffer tube. That way it would readily accept a stock once a 16 inch barrel is installed on the receiver.”
Thanks for your time.
E-man
I’m curious as well after the new ruling. I wouldn’t do it, but hopefully someone writes a letter to ATF for clarification and shares the results.
I wouldn’t be surprised if manufacturers start coming out with AR pistols sold with rifle conversion kits.
Writing the BATFE for clarification will do nothing except create more issues. But, since we are talking about ridiculous AR pistols anyways maybe that’s a good idea.
I agree IG - I think AR pistols are the most ridiculous and unusable abomination of otherwise good parts… (not to be confused with pistol caliber ARs - which rock)
Nonetheless, I can’t image that building them with carbine REs and keeping a stock (for when you want to pop on a 16" or greater barreled upper) with it is a good idea in my book.
Either build a useful 16" length AR or go the SBR route.
Ok, I read it. Now, can translate that into Knuckledragger? I don’t really see anything groundbreaking there.
You can make an AR pistol into a rifle, then convert it back to a pistol again if you want. No more of the “once a rifle, always a rifle” stuff.
I was referring to the use of a standard carbine receiver extension. How does this ruling have any impact on?
Just that this passage makes it look like keeping a shoulder stock within proximity of your ar pistol with carbine tube makes you a possible felon.
Held, a firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they:
(a) Serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and barrel of less than 16 inches in length); or
(b) Convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm, including –
(1) A pistol and attachable shoulder stock; and
- 4 -
(2) A rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an attachable barrel of less than 16 inches in length
Hi. I tend to agree with the sentiment that “AR Pistols are stupid” but I really think you should be aware of some exceptions:
A combination of the above factors could make an AR pistol with a 10" barrel and quality ammunition a viable option. I have seen individuals run AR pistols in classes and outshoot others using real rifles. Sure, they’d probably do even better with a real rifle, but it isn’t an unwieldy or unusable option. Some AR pistols are stupid, but some can be setup as a useful alternative to a SBR.
Then let me change my original statement and opinion - 5.56 AR pistols are complete horseshit if you live in a state that permits SBRs… such as GA.
(not to be confused with pistol caliber ARs - which rock)
I just can’t see a carbine RE being 100% Kosher on a AR pistol build, especially with owning a stock that you ONLY install when you pop in the 16"+ length upper.
Sounds like a recipe for 10 years of ass rape in a Federal pen.
Wow.
I can’t make heads or tails of that ruling without some further clarification.
Seems to leave too much open to interpretation if you just have a bunch of parts laying around.
The problem is interpretation.
I understand shoulder stock as in- the type that attaches to a Mauser or some of the Browning HP’s. But, we all know that the BATFE is very good at writing stuff very vague.
I will say this- How does the BATFE know if you do or don’t? It’s not like they drive around looking for people. I would be willing to bet my money that in most cases where someone is hemmed up, it is due ti them attracting attention to themselves.
Yes, unless it is a “kit” with a 16" barrel to install as well. If the stock serves no purpose other than making an illegal SBR it would get you into trouble. It becomes even more difficult for those of us that have a bunch of extra parts around, like extra stocks.
“Therefore, so long as a parts kit or collection of parts is not used to make a firearm regulated under the NFA (e.g., a short-barreled rifle or “any other weapon” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(e)), no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).”
I don’t understand why anyone would consider it…what is the intent of using a rifle buffer tube on an AR pistol and how is le / batfe going to view your intent??
I don’t quite understand it either. It really is a game of trying to decipher where the “line” is. It seems many of the decisions are counter-intuitive and don’t really adhere to logic, so people ask rather than assume.
It seems the recent decision would allow an individual to put a rifle upper on their Pistol lower without turning the pistol into a rifle (though who knows why you would want to??).
Todd,
Your second part makes alot of sense and I was wondering about that as well.
Can you have your SBR loaded in GA in your car? I can have my AR pistol loaded in my front seat in WA with my concealed pistol license. I can have it concealed and loaded in a backpack which I can’t do with my rifles.
Even if (hopefully when) we get SBRs legal again in WA, I’ll keep one pistol build just for those reasons. At 25 yards it’s easier to keep rounds on target with an AR pistol than regular handguns for me. And 30 rounds of 77gr .223 is pretty decisive.
As to the actual question, I don’t know. I do know that I’d not use a carbine extension just to avoid any potential hassles. Better safe than sorry IMO. I’d probably just use a set screw in the receiver for the takedown detent spring to make swapping easier.
Though to be honest I’m not sure why I’d want to swap. Perhaps for a 6.8 or larger caliber for hunting when you can get an extra week when using a handgun?
Here’s an idea that a buddy of mine floated around. What if you use a standard carbine buffer tube and mill off the locks that allow you to place a stock on it. In other words, if you put a stock on it, It would neither be solid nor secure. if you were to hold the pistol up right, the stock would slide right off?
this is a cool concept!